Drill grinders/sharpeners and their capabilities

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

I currently use a Picador drill sharpener with a 4” diamond wheel. It works very satisfactorily on drills up to 1/2” when all you want is a standard grind (i.e. no split point et al.)

I’m considering getting a machine with greater capabilities and capacity, for example a DG20M, but I’m not totally sure what they’ll do and won’t do.

Ideally I’d want the machine to be able to:

1. put a standard grind on straight shank twist drills and spot drills from 60-135 degrees, and also on taper shank drills, up to 20mm.
2. Create a split point and the associated back grind on the trailing edge;
3. Thin the web where necessary.

The DG20M appears to do everything but the last*. The only machine I’ve seen in fact that has a separate function for thinning the web is on Stefan Gotteswinter’s channel, where he shows this on a Motom BSM13 Duo. Even the much more pricy Darex V-391 doesn’t appear to have this web thinning capability, though I couldn’t say for sure at this stage.

Sadly, I do not have room for a Clarkson or Brierley, which is why I’m exploring smaller options for now.

*edit: its smallest angle is in fact 90 degrees.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Hi Bill, I know you have discounted the Brierley but if it is not on it’s stand it will sit on a bench. Mine is being used so at the moment at a local club.  Noel.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Thanks for the information, Noel. I’m pretty limited, for the foreseeable future, on how far I can travel, but it’s good to know Brierleys don’t have to be floor-standing.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Bill

I have a, probably unreasonable, prejudice against fully enclosed drill sharpening machines where it’s intrinsically impossible to see whats going on when a drill comes out incorrectly sharpened. I’m also chary of anything that doesn’t use standard grinding wheels.

That said the DG20 is by far the most compact system covering your size range and have been around long enough for any issues to have become quite widely known. Far as I can see pretty much all reported problems build down to operator error with some, older and therefore most likely obsolete comments on grinding wheel quality and availability. As you get good result with a Picador jig which, in my opinion is capable but requires too high a level of routine skill to get the best from it I can’t see you having any problems with the DG20. One nice thing is that drills merely stick at a somewhat upwards angle out of the basic box so you don’t need allocated bench space to accommodate the long shanks on larger drills.

They were just becoming available on the UK market when I bought the Clarkson device. Took an interested look before turning down due to worries about supply and a rather high price. Pushing £1000 then. Under £700 now completely transforms the fiscal issue. I looking now I’d be seriously tempted despite prejudice.

The Kaidl DG device looked good to me

https://www.kaindl.de/en/machines/machines-driller

But I didn’t find a UK source.

Essentially all in one up market version of the Picador system with the nice twiddly bits to make it easier to use.

Pretty sure that you aren’t into DIY or switching to all four facet points. However if you are open to the idea I’m certain I saw a design for a very a very simple device using ER collets working on similar lines to the tilting holders made for sharpening end mills on surface grinders. Same sort of simple two tile angle concept albeit horizontal rather than vertical. Maybe someone here knows about it.

Clive

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If you want a device capable of grinding other tools as well as drills, why not invest in a cutter grinder? There are kits available for the Quorn (The most versatile and complicated) The Stent, or the Worden (Which uses no castings)

These should allow you to grind drills to whatever point angle you wish.

Howard

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

In my Mens Shed we have a Vevor. Probably a clone of the DG. Only limitation is some small drills are at the transition from one collet to another so look for something that has lots of collets with overlapping ranges if possible.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Thanks a lot for the further replies.

Howard, I did consider (and still would consider) a cutter grinder for more general sharpening. The limitation of the off-the-peg ones I’ve seen, though, is they will only sharpen up to 1/2”/13mm twist drills.

If this is only because they are supplied with standard ER20 collets, and drill-holding using ER25 or bigger collets is possible without major adaptation, then an off-the-peg cutter grinder begins to look a more obvious solution to my drill sharpening requirements. OTOH, perhaps Bazyle’s mention of the importance of getting one with lots of collets means the collets employed are not standard ER collets and finding extra or bigger ones might prove difficult.

The Quorn etc. kits are certainly appealing, but for the time being at least my workshop time is so limited that I would be destined not to get any use out of one made from a kit for a considerable time to come.

Clive, I get your point about enclosed devices. I suppose what might redeem them is if they do permit viewing of the drill/wheel contact zone and have enough adjustability to give you at least some of the freedoms that come with typical fully-exposed grinding systems.

Interesting that you mention wheel availability in these enclosed types. What I think would disappoint me is if surface finish on the grind was always somewhat rough because of the wheel’s low grit count and a higher grit count wheel was not available as an optional extra.

I knew nothing of the Kaindl machines until you mentioned them. They certainly seem to fit the bill functionally speaking. I will look into them.

Edit: the photo shows the surface finish I get with my (notionally 400G) diamond wheel using the Picador. 9.5mm drill on the left is the factory grind: 10mm drill on right sharpened on the diamond wheel.

 

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

If a full Quorn build is too time consuming the main part, the workhead, is sort of available. Have a look at ME&W issue 4775 April 2026. Five minutes thought and you can adapt to use with a standard bench grinder.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Bill,

I made a Worden  (Thought to be the simplest kit to make), rather than buying a far eastern “plug’n play” machine.

The original Hemingway HK1310 did not have the means to rotate the drill after each cut (To ensure equal length lips), so made a holder using my ER25 collets. This involved turning down the clamp nut, because it fouled the table.

Then made an ER20 version, and found that Giles Parkes had already done that.

The rear of the clamp nut will need to be turned at a 59 degree angle to bed against the front face of the 31 degree angled base.

So the drill grinding fixture that is used most often is a hybrid of the Mk1 rather than the Jim Whetren Mk 2.

The Mk2 version can accept larger drills than 13 mm (I modded mine to take longer / Morse taper Drills.  But it still has the defect (In my eyes) of needing extreme care to ensure that the lips finish up at equal length.

Blacksmiths drills, having a reduced shank, can be gripped in an ER collet for grinding.

So might be worth reducing the shank of larger drills?

The advantage of ER collets in a square holder, is that after every cut, the drill can be rotated by 180 degrees to take the same cut on the other lip.

The table will need to be set at 90 degrees to the wheel, using the HK1319 Mk1, for a 118 degree tip angle, and the clearance angles by swing the tool holder on the table, against the angular graduations.

For other tip angles, it might mean making one or more jigs so that the eccentrics can be used to set the table at the appropriate angle to the wheel, or use the Mk2 to grind other tip angles .

The HK 1310 Mk2 can be set to grind tip angles other than 118 degrees.

I’ve never tried this!

Subsequently, the Worden has been used to sharpen lathe tools, end mills and, with a diamond wheel, an insertesd tooth brazed carbide milling cutter. (Needed extra holders for this)

The time involved in making it, and the accessories, was well spent, gave pleasure, and the machine has proved useful, even if not used frequently.  But it’s there if needed!

Mine departs from standard in having a drawer between the reinforcing bars in the base, to hold tools and table setting jigs, and now a screen to prevent grinding dust form contaminating the slide bars and eccentrics.

Howard

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

If anyone has room, I’ve got a Meteor ME.14 grinder that’s now surplus to requirements. 0.08″ to 1.5″ capacity. I’ve replaced the motor bearings, bought new wheels (including a spare), fixed the light and made some new drill alignment blades. I’ve replaced all the original, broken, Bakelite knobs with cast iron ones. And it’s got both a lathes.co.uk reprint manual and the original that I found in the cabinet and cleaned the gunge off…

It’ll do web thinning, but not point splitting.

It’s currently wired for 415V 3ph, but I can re-wire it for 230V single phase.

Ok, this isn’t in the classified section, but I’d be happy to pass it on for £200. That’s somewhat less that I’ve poured into it, but I need the space. 😮

[renardiere7Participant @renardiere7]

Where about in the country are you Mark?

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Many thanks for the further replies.

Howard, have you got any pictures of the Worden you made and of some of the things you’ve ground/sharpened on it? It sounds like a versatile piece of kit.

Mark, I remember when you first acquired the Meteor and posted about it. Given the work you’ve done on it, it sounds like a steal at the price you’re asking. Though it doesn’t split the point it will clearly do what it does do very well and on much bigger drills than most of those benchtop collet-based machines I discussed earlier. Whereabouts are you located, Mark?

 

[brickyParticipant @bricky]

I use a Delta 2 which is an old American tool from WW2 but works well.I also have a Reliant which I have not set up.

Frank

[renardiere7]

On renardiere7 Said:

Where about in the country are you Mark?

 

On 21 August 2026 at 20:15 Bill Phinn Said:
Whereabouts are you located, Mark?

 

 

I’m in Rugby.

The workshop is:- What.three.words location ///loudly.dusty.works appropriately enough 🙂

 

The reason I’m happy to pass it on to someone else is all Noel’s fault. I picked up a Brierley ZB25 from Adam Stevenson’s homeworkshop site and I’ve not got that working. I really don’t need two full sized drill sharpeners!

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Sorry Mark ! What’s the problem with it ? Or is it simply a case of lack of time ? I will help if I can ? Noel.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Oops! I just realised that I miss-typed ‘now’ as ‘not’. I meant that it was ‘your fault’ because you extolled the virtues of the Brierleys.

When I saw one locally at a reasonable price, I snapped it up. Had to replace the wheels, a few bearings and do a fair amount of relatively light cleanup, but now it’s sat at one end of the shed and the Meteor’s at the other. I don’t need both. 😀

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

The 64$ question Mark is – do you agree ? Or is there a better drill grinder out there ? Or is it just me ? Noel.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

There might be a better one, But I haven’t seen it yet.

The point splitting attachment is a joke on the smaller units, unless one were sharpening large numbers of the same size drills. The design pre-dates ER collets though. The dust ‘extraction’ facilities are poorly thought out and the main spindle to thrust ring thrust bearing really needs a labyrinth seal.

 

But that’s mostly nit picking and may have been addressed in many of the design changes since mine was built.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Bill Phinn,

If you PM me with an E mail address, I’ll find some pictures and send them to you.

The machines will be in two colours, the blue one is my Mk1, and the green one is a Mk3 that I made for The Water Works Museum in Hereford , so very slightly different.

Howard

[PippinParticipant @phillspowart84010]

We have an Optimum drill grinder at work, which does a very nice job of sharpening and point splitting. They have a couple of versions, ours is the GH15T that does 3-30mm (Although sharpening 3mm drills is a bit risky, they stick out too much and tend to snap off). Very easy to set and use, I’ve been using old HSS drills sharpened on it in the CNC machines with good results. It can do a range of point angles. I was going to get one for home, but I picked up a Brierley at auction instead.

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