New Mill – Starter Tooling

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Ron if you want to machine the locating blocks down to fit your 8mm slots it does not matter if you cat into the counterbore. They are not too hard to mill

You can also turn down the screw heads so they are a shade under 8mm. or make up a couple of sleeves threaded M6 on the outsid eto fit the vice and M4 on the inside so smaller M4 screws can be used either cap head or CSK

I took these ones down to 10mm to suit the SX2.7

Less than 0.01mm runout over the 80mm jaw width. Although I normally don't bother with the location blocks.

For holding the vice I would suggest making some M8 Tee Bolts rather than using tee nuts, studs, etc. A thick turned washer will also be better under the nut than your clamping plates. If you are not sure what the tee bolts should look like just ask

Edited By JasonB on 21/10/2018 13:39:13

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Hi Jason, thats helpful, I will it a go and no I am not sure what the T bolt should look like.

Thanks

Ron

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Hi Jason, you were quite right the blocks do machine ok, did one this afternoon. I was going to double up in the vice and do the two at the same time but there is a 3 thou difference in thickness and worried one may break loose so I chickened out and then I got called away so will do the other in the morning.

 

Edited By Ron Laden on 21/10/2018 19:17:16

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Mill cutting tool speed..? Quite some time ago when I started to consider getting a mill, I read somewhere and for the life of me cant remember where, a quick speed calculation that is said to get you in the right ball park for cutter speeds.

3.82 (or rounded to 4) multiplied by material SFM divided by tool diameter in inches = cutter speed. It stuck in my memory, does anyone recognise it and more the point is it something like correct.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Your 3.82 is simply 12/Pi

It basically converts SFM to inches and uses Pi D as the circumference of a circle of diameter D to calculate the rpm.

Obviously leads to 400rpm for a 1” cutter at 100SFM. That may well be what is used by commercial outfits cutting low carbon steel with HSS. Hobbyists might reduce the speed a tad, because the cutters will last longer, and time is not money.

Your choice, once you remember that 400rpm, whether you double it for carbide cutters, double it for aluminium cutting with HSS, double it for a 1/2” cutter, etc – or change your factor of four and work out the same numbers, but differently.

Personally, I prefer metric but once you know the surface metres per minute, the calculation is simple enough for a 10mm cutter. Then go from there.

Not surprisingly, the 100fpm converts to 30.5m so that divided by Pi gives ~10. Converting through the maths, a 10mm cutter would work out to 1000rpm, 20mm would be 500rpm and 25mm (1&rdquo would be 400rpm

Now, do you use imperial or metric cutters and does it make any difference?

Carry on with your conversions and I will do it my way. We will both get the same result and then alter it to suit the actual conditions (chatter, surface finish, tool wear, etc).

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks ndiy, good to know it is close enough with some adjustments for various conditions.

Ron

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Well despite having to reduce the location block width from 14.0mm to 8.0mm they worked out ok, had to increase the depth of the thread in the vice to fit plus turn the screw heads down.

A bit of a bonus with the swivel base removed from the vice, a gain of 30mm plus the vice doesnt look like such a big lump on the table.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by JasonB on 21/10/2018 13:26:48:

For holding the vice I would suggest making some M8 Tee Bolts rather than using tee nuts, studs, etc. A thick turned washer will also be better under the nut than your clamping plates. If you are not sure what the tee bolts should look like just ask

Edited By JasonB on 21/10/2018 13:39:13

Hi Jason, When you have a minute would you mind showing me how the Tee bolts should look , I do know what the very basic ones look like but wondered if you meant something a bit better.

Hope thats ok, many thanks

Ron

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Just something like this Ron, turn from say 20mm Mild steel, thread the end M8 and then mill the "head" down on either side so it fits your tee slots.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

‘‘ had to increase the depth of the thread in the vice to fit plus turn the screw heads down.”

Shortening the screws would have been easier? Presumably the original threads were deep enough for security?

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

The mounting holes in the vice were deep enough just not very well threaded, 3 or 4mm short plus what thread was there felt rough. The screws I used are the ones supplied with the blocks so you would assume they should fit, they are not overly long.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

They are a bit dirty and a bit of a tight fit. I just ran a plug tap into the vice shown above, went in plenty far enough for the supplied screws.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Our posts crossed Jason, I did the same with the plug tap.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Ron Laden on 21/10/2018 22:11:02:

Mill cutting tool speed..? Quite some time ago when I started to consider getting a mill, I read somewhere and for the life of me cant remember where, a quick speed calculation that is said to get you in the right ball park for cutter speeds.

3.82 (or rounded to 4) multiplied by material SFM divided by tool diameter in inches = cutter speed. It stuck in my memory, does anyone recognise it and more the point is it something like correct.

Have a look here:

**LINK**

Copy, print and laminate and leave by the mill.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Vic on 22/10/2018 18:51:08:

Posted by Ron Laden on 21/10/2018 22:11:02:

Mill cutting tool speed..? Quite some time ago when I started to consider getting a mill, I read somewhere and for the life of me cant remember where, a quick speed calculation that is said to get you in the right ball park for cutter speeds.

3.82 (or rounded to 4) multiplied by material SFM divided by tool diameter in inches = cutter speed. It stuck in my memory, does anyone recognise it and more the point is it something like correct.

Have a look here:

**LINK**

Copy, print and laminate and leave by the mill.

Ron is not using Carbide insert milling cutters so not that much use to him.

Also there comments on power requirements are base on belt drive not variable speed machines.

 

Edited By JasonB on 22/10/2018 19:31:35

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Noticed some M8 carriage bolts in my woodworking box, a quick measure up found the square section at the base of the thread fits the table tee slot. A couple of flats milled on the head and you have a couple of tee bolts. I know that carriage bolts come in numerous sizes, I think for the M8 there is about 30 sizes from 20mm up to 240mm. A selection of sizes could be useful for the clamping set, they only take 5 minutes to mill and they are also available in stainless.

Edited By Ron Laden on 23/10/2018 08:48:19

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Well done Ron. That's exactly what I did on my first mill in order to clamp some material to the table to make some proper T-nuts.

Russell

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 23/10/2018 08:51:31:

Well done Ron. That's exactly what I did on my first mill in order to clamp some material to the table to make some proper T-nuts.

Russell

I think that’s how I made my first T nuts as well!

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Almost got caught out this morning by the mill, on my mini-lathe when you cut the power by either the chuck guard, the on/off switch or kill button the lathe will not start again if there is any setting on the speed control. You have to turn the speed control off and then back on before it will start, not so the mill. The mills speed control doesnt have an on/off position just min/max, I never gave it a thought as I always stop the mill before switching off the power. Since I last used it the mills speed control was dialled in to about quarter speed which I didnt notice and I cant think how it happened, anyway when I switched on the mill it fired up into drive.. so a lesson learnt. Pity it doesnt have the same safety built in like the lathe.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Ron, it is not good practice to stop the mill or the lathe by the guard or emergency stop button. Always use the on/of switch.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Hi Jason,

I always switch off with the on/off switch, I was just meaning that with the lathe, no matter how it is switched off it wont start again if there is any setting on the speed control, were as the mill will.

Edited By Ron Laden on 24/10/2018 15:47:46

Edited By Ron Laden on 24/10/2018 15:50:05

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Morning guys

Warco do a 100mm horizonta/vertical rotary table for £56, maybe the price says it all I dont know.

I know nothing about the tables and it must be very basic at the price, but if it serves a purpose and gives me an added approach on the mill I wonder. I can think of a number of jobs coming up where it could be useful.

What do you guys think worth a go or leave it alone..?

[Anonymous]

Buy a bigger rotary table than you think you'll need. It's suprising how much of the diameter can be taken up with clamps. Personally I prefer a parallel hole in the centre rather than a Morse taper. Makes it easier to indicate on and much easier to make quick 'n' dirty arbors to align the work.

Andrew

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Ron,

I am with Andrew on this one. I originally bought a 4" rotary table for my mini mill. One of the worst purchases I made! I used it while I didn't have anything else but it was very limited and to be honest not well made. The worst thing about the particular one I got was the single screw to lock the table acts on the side of the table and the register it acts on as well as the bearings are not well or accurately machined so if you nip up the screw to lock it, the table gets pushed sideways out of kilter by about 8 thou – absolutely hopeless! I ended up getting a 6" Warco rotary table that came with the dividing attachment and plates. Since having the 6" the original has not been out of the box. The clamps on the Warco act downwards so no issues with moving it out of alignment. Also as Andrew says lots more options for clamping things down. I am not proud when it comes to budget level tooling and have generally got reasonable results but the small rotary table was a complete waste of money. Even if it had been better manufactured and generally fit for purpose I would have still outgrown it. Get the biggest you can fit on the machine and if you can get one with the dividing kit thrown in, go for that, even if you don't think you will need it now.

Paul.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I have the Warco 6" and an X2 mill.

I think a 5" would be a better match, the 6" is strictly too large for the mill, although I suspect that really it just LOOKS too big. Does need a bit of help/ingenuity with clamping arrangements.

You do get a lot for your dollars though, and it seems to be better made than some of the smaller ones I've seen at various shows, certainly a lot smoother.

Neil

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