Milling Machine Identification

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The archetypal flank drive spanners and sockets are branded "Metrinch" They tend to feel sloppy, but do not rely on the corners of the hexagon to drive. And they will drive bolts / nuts that defeat anything else.

Machine Mart are a possible source of sets of spanners or sockets. The open ends of the combination spanners do not fill me with confidence, but the sockets and rings are superb!

Relatively expensive, but you get what you pay for, and must be more economical to do the job safely (for you and the fixings ) than ruining the machine.

With rusty fixings, sometimes holding a hammer on one flat, and hitting the opposite one, possibly then on all the other flatss, will often distort the nut and break the rust. lubrication may then enable the nut to be slackened.

Hitting a bolt on the head, axially, will sometimes do the same job, especially if penetrating oil is present, since it will "wick" into any gap that opens up, if only for a fraction of a second.

Good luck with the restoration. You could end up with a really useable machine.

Howard

[Robert ButlerParticipant @robertbutler92161]

With Whitworth/BSF the number of spanners/sockets required to cover the sizes you are likely to need is quite small so even good quality needn't break the bank and more important likely to outlast the owner. the bonus is skinned knuckle avoidance.

Robert Butler

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

Plus-Gas is on it's way and I have a few 1/4 inch spanners. Still struggling so will keep an eye out for a 1/4 Whitworth Flank spanner. I can't seem to post in classified. I presumed it was a paid option. Dropped back on the Myford Lathe restoration today. I tend to clean up the workbench or go off and do something else while I process information regarding a job I'm stuck on. I don't go fast any more.

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

I have at least five bolts that don't realise how important it is that they come out. I have tried the Plus Gas and will try it overnight. Then it's no more p'ing about and time for the angle grinder and stud remover. I give them one last chance to play fair 😂

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

When you say ‘stud remover’ you mean a proper tool for removing studs? Not cutting the off and using those (mostly horrid) extractors. Welding on another nut is much preferable to those brittle extractors which, when they break, cause even more problems.

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

Yes, I of course meant a proper tool for removal. 

Edited By John Milton 2 on 25/06/2019 21:08:30

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If you are prepared to replace the bolts, Machine Mart sell bolt removers

You are unlikely to find a flank drive spanner described as "1/4 BSW" since it will be capabale of driving Whit, A/F or Metric fastenings; loose fitting but effective.

(Do not use Easyouts- the name is a total misnomer, and you may well break one in the fixing that you arte trying to remove , making things worse )

The Bolt Remover is like a socket with an internal left hand thread instead of a hexagon.

If you have the correct size socket, careful use of a manual impact driver, may shake things loose. Even better if you could use a pneumatic Impact driver. The vibration may eventually shake the rust loose.

I fear that it is possible that some of the fixings may shear off. If they do you are faced with the job of drilling,

(Left hand drills may help here ) and retapping the hole. If you do have the misfortune to drift off centre, using the mating piece as a drill jig, you may be able to recentre a drill and then drill and tap to a larger size (say 3/8 BSF for an original 1/4 BSF ) ready to fit a 3/8 Male 1/4 Female bush.

HTH

Howard

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

These are on the way. they are a complete pain and I have never had so many problems removing bolts

Link

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

Next job and I have been putting this one off is removing the broken spindle. It is also locked solid and I hope this is a left hand thread or I have just been tightening it

I was going so well at the start too.

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

PlusGas I honestly love you. Thanks for the tip Michael and Hugh. I wouldn't say it's easy but in some cases the bolts are just throwing in the towel now Little victories are keeping me going and giving me hope that I will see this machine completely dismantled after all.

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

That's it! No more Mr nice guy. The angle grinder is out. I did warn them to be fair.

[HughEParticipant @hughe]

Progress indeed. In some cases I spent a week adding Plus Gas every night after applying heat. Worst case I applied the old oxy act torch to them. Another trick is if you do get some movement don't try to remove it in one go, rock back a forth and it will slowly but eventually yield. Noticed that Fuzz Townsend on car SOS advocates using this trick.

On a less serious note, never give the problem bolt a hint that you are in a hurry!

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

That's a good point HughE it's a schoolboy error to let on you need them to be evicted. I sort of went a little stir crazy and attacked with the angle grinder. I hope I can repair what is now somewhat broken but as above I think a whole new shaft is required anyway. I have now got it nearly all apart. Not the now and forever onwards to be called bas74rd bolts. Not knowing the terminology can someone tell me what I am searching for. I want a complete shaft and a socket that the milling head/collet will fit into.

Edited By John Milton 2 on 28/06/2019 20:28:33

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

It's all apart now with one exception.one of the tapered bearings on the main shaft is being an awkward bugger. I'm looking at the price of a new one if I go Rambo on it so am just soaking it and pretending I don't care if it comes off or not. I'm cleaning off 60 years of grease and dirt and then going to re-assemble and decide which parts need oil and which need paint. I'm thinking I may drill out the existing fittings and go metric as Whitworth is not working so I'm thinking they could be pre war and either American or some other standard. Seven bolts made me lose sleep but eAuction site meant that I had the bolt remover required and all seven were out after only 30 minutes grafting. I am still trying to work out what milling head I am going to replace the original with to make this a fully working machine. I don't know which search terms to use so I'm struggling. Anyone that can give me a point in the right direction here?

I will add some photos soon but am on a mission so may take some time to reply. Thanks for reading and it's all good from here on… I hope 👌

 

Edited By John Milton 2 on 30/06/2019 16:41:09

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Do you have a set of 55º and 60º thread-gauges? Those and a micrometer – plus of course the thread charts – will determine what fixings were used.

BSW and BSF are certainly pre-War, and so are the American equivalents, though I think the Unified version may be later. The hexagon sizes differ markedly for same thread diameters, between the two nation's specifications.

If this machine is a one-off as seems likely, you'd be very lucky to find a suitable milling-head and may have to fabricate one.

Bearings: I'd thought it possible to obtain replacements. Whoever built it would have almost certainly used stock bearings. Probably worth fitting new anyway unless the original ones can be cleaned up and are in serviceable condition. Caked-on grease is not a problem but corrosion will have destroyed them.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

If bearings are pre-war era they could be obsolete imperial size taper-roller bearings. Modern ones are (mostly) metric. Measure the shaft size and outer race outside diameter and look them up on the Timken website etc. Don't get cheap no-name bearings. Try to get Timken, SKF etc. Sometimes adaptor sleeves etc have to be made up to fit the next nearest size modern metric bearings to old imperial machinery. Have found this on vintage sidecar wheel bearings etc .

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

It is defo hand made I have bolts that have been cut round so that the sides can fit flush to the base #schoolboyerror Not sure if I should re-drill, Put in Allen key bolts or use the old ones that hide under the machines sides. I will add a photo later

I don't have the tools you are referring to Nigel but I am working on it. The bearings look okay but will know better after I give them a clean. Both bearings are Timken Hopper so I will try to re-use them both if humanly possible. the larger one is not giving up without a fight it's still firmly on the shaft. I am getting quite (excited) not quite excited but near to that, in that it is all disassembled now and ready for prepping for paint or bluing or whatever. I want to make it the best I can an yes I know it's a tool but I want it at it's best again so if you have any ideas for a finish as nearly the whole thing is bare metal. NOT Myford grey haha Thank you both for your comments, Very much appreciated.

 

 

Edited By John Milton 2 on 01/07/2019 13:21:53

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

If I was going to build a completely new shaft and add either a morse taper connection or iso30 (think this is right) What would be best to go with and what female connector would I need to attach to the shaft to accept either or both types of male connections?

Sorry I'm struggling with parts and descriptive terms.

[MeunierParticipant @meunier]

Amazing that there should be two of these machines – JohnMilton2 also has one !!
DaveD

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

Posted by Meunier on 01/07/2019 15:39:54:

Amazing that there should be two of these machines – JohnMilton2 also has one !!

DaveD

IMPOSTER!!!!

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

I'm off to pick this bad boy up. Soon I will have every tool required to make my doomsday machine!!! Watch this space 😱

Bad Boy

Edited By JohnM on 01/07/2019 17:00:24

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

Anyone have an idea how to turn the Sylvac Caliper off? The seller said he had no idea and there are no instructions. He said he just left them on all the time

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

Just a quick update and the reason why we don't involve our other half in anything practical.

I sent the following two photos to my partner and innocently she asked me which was the before and which was after 😱

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi JohnM, I've got it, you've taken the top one just lately and the bottom one when you first had it in your youth.

Regards Nick.

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

Posted by Nicholas Farr on 14/07/2019 08:49:51:

Hi JohnM, I've got it, you've taken the top one just lately and the bottom one when you first had it in your youth.

Regards Nick.

Just checking my missus family tree to see if you are both related 😂😂😂😂😂

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