Intel PCs to be reduced in speed by up to 30%

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Neil,

I think if you read what the Linux community actually says, you will find that they do not claim, and never have claimed, immunity from malware etc. What they do say, is that Linux is inherantly safer than Windows because a) the small user base means that spammers, thieves etc do not get anything like the quantity of results as they do from Windows; and b) because Linux by default does not allow easy access to the root, it is more difficult for the ne'er do wells to gain access and do severe damage. Although, as I understand it, Windows is catching up with Linux in this respect.

Peter G. Shaw

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

For anyone interested here are links to the Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures database where these things are made public.

CVE-2017-5715

CVE-2017-5753

CVE-2017-5754

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I was being mischievous. While there are fewer Linux vulnerabilities, it has its share of viruses, ransomware, trojans etc.

There are already cross-platform viruses, one was spread by Microsoft Office, sorry, OpenOffice.

Neil

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 05/01/2018 21:59:15:

I was being mischievous. While there are fewer Linux vulnerabilities, it has its share of viruses, ransomware, trojans etc.

…

Neil

Still being mischievous you bad boy! Go sit on the naughty step and think about what you typed.

Linux's share of viruses is less than 0.1%. Also I think it's safe to say that most Linux malware lives in a laboratory and that none has ever done significant damage in the real world. Apple is not quite so safe, but poor old Microsoft is riddled with it. That's just how it is.

Anyone else remember Mellisa? Happy Days.

Dave

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

From watching the bbc news, you would think the problem just affected Apple products.

As far as I am aware Apple patched there products a few weeks ago apart from Safari.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

If they're messing with the chip microcode then things could get awkward

Some OEM vendors allow it, Intel does not in my experience (775 boards)

If you plug a chip into a board without the right microcode for it you can get a dead computer

(Swap the old chip back in and things are fine)

Interesting times ahead

Edited By Ady1 on 06/01/2018 00:49:49

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Ady1 on 06/01/2018 00:48:07:

If they're messing with the chip microcode then things could get awkward

Who do you mean by "they"?

The code in the intel-microcode package is written by Intel. It is undocumented, encrypted, and full of checksums so it would be very difficult for anyone else to play with. BIOS loads the microcode into the CPU following a hard reboot and is used by Intel to fix bugs in the CPU firmware.

Russell

Edited By Russell Eberhardt on 06/01/2018 08:10:16

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I think it has already hit my ASUS Lap top as it took 9 hours to download and rebuild Win 10 last night!.

Clive

[egaParticipant @ega]

Russell Eberhardt:

Thank you for further clarifying the relationship between Intel microcode and the BIOS. As I understand it, the latter is written by the motherboard manufacturer – possibly an argument for using an Intel board.

I probably need to re-visit Scott Mueller's excellent book.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

More detail on microde updates here. See section 9.1.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/64-ia-32-architectures-software-developer-vol-3a-part-1-manual.html

Russell

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Time to sue Intel??

Class action

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jan/05/intel-class-action-lawsuits-meltdown-spectre-bugs-computer

Russell

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Tracy Kidder's 'Soul of a New Machine' is a thoroughly readable book about developing a bleeding edge 32-bit processor circa 1980. As I recall it's good at explaining Microcode.

Dave

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 06/01/2018 16:25:01:

Time to sue Intel??

.

I guess that's what Brian Krzanich thought.

MichaelG.

[David TaylorParticipant @davidtaylor63402]

The chance of most people being affected by either bug is pretty slim and the press coverage around it is cataclysmic.

The cure is probably worse than the disease in this case – the overhead incurred in large data centres after the fixes are applied – as compared to people browsing the web or watching movies – could use a lot of extra power for the same workload.

With this and the Management Extension stuff last year Intel is having a hard time of it. Not that I feel sorry for them.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

If you are running W10 on a computer that has an AMD processor it might be a good idea to avoid updates for now!

**LINK**

http://news.softpedia.com/news/windows-10-cumulative-update-kb4056892-meltdown-spectre-fix-fails-to-install-519238.shtml

Russell

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

The chance of most people being affected by either bug is pretty slim and the press coverage around it is cataclysmic.

Intruiging to watch society being manipulated by semi truths and wild exaggeration though

I wonder if any flip side commentary will be permitted, I doubt it

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Now if you're a 24/7 web based business server, I can see exploits being a big issue

Most servers are…. Linux I believe

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Ady1 on 07/01/2018 12:38:16:

Most servers are…. Linux I believe

That’s an interesting comment as about 20 years ago they would have said Unix.

[Johnboy25Participant @johnboy25]

“Intriguing to watch society being manipulated by semi-truths and wild exaggeration…”

Yes that’s familiar – just like the Trump administration! 🤔😋😳

[David TaylorParticipant @davidtaylor63402]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 06/01/2018 18:33:53:

Tracy Kidder's 'Soul of a New Machine' is a thoroughly readable book about developing a bleeding edge 32-bit processor circa 1980. As I recall it's good at explaining Microcode.

That's a brilliant book. I read it years ago and always wanted to revisit, then one day I looked in the books at the tip recycling shop and there it was!

No idea why a copy was out here in regional NSW but my gain.

[David TaylorParticipant @davidtaylor63402]

Posted by Ady1 on 07/01/2018 11:59:18:

Intruiging to watch society being manipulated by semi truths and wild exaggeration though

They're a difficult couple of bugs to explain and I guess no media organisation wants to open themselves up to "you said it was a storm in a teacup".

I think said media organisations are enjoying having a sky is falling story to report on, especially in a slow early January. They haven't had it this good since Y2K.

I'm annoyed about how much extra power the fix is going to cost though. Given all the other ways people have found to get into our computers, and the generally insecure state of OSs and application software, exploiting these bugs looks like doing things the hard way.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Johnboy25 on 07/01/2018 17:03:42:

“Intriguing to watch society being manipulated by semi-truths and wild exaggeration…”

Yes that’s familiar – just like the Trump administration! 🤔😋😳

well that's better than Boris, total lies and wild exaggeration. I bet this gets deleted!

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Ady1 on 07/01/2018 11:59:18:

Intruiging to watch society being manipulated by semi truths and wild exaggeration though

I wonder if any flip side commentary will be permitted, I doubt it

I'm not sure about that. Lot's of ill informed reporting in the non-technical press but that's probably lack of understanding rather than manipulation.

Russell

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

How much power?

If the fix consumes say few% more power and a PC consumes from 100 to 500 watts what will the world power bill be for this fix. Microsoft states that they support 1.25 billion currently running PC's (Add to that all the other devices that contain the faulty chips)

**LINK**

How much power?
I guess it depends on the use. Server farms alone in the US used 75 billion KWH (In 2014)
**LINK**

For PC office and home users who knows.

On thing is certain the cost to the community of fixing this problem will not be trifling. In fact it will be huge.

Regards
John

Edited By John McNamara on 08/01/2018 14:24:52

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

I've just updated Firefox to v. 57.0.4 which contains a "partial, short-term, mitigation" to avoid Spectre attacks via JavaScript on web pages. The change involves reducing the precision of some timers from 5 µS to 20 µS to prevent malicious code using precise timing for the attack.

I haven't observed any noticeable degradation of performance.

Russell

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