Feedback Sought – Beginner’s Series

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

One thought, if authors are reading this (and I know some are), next time you write me something add in a 'text box' or two with a potted description of a useful or tricky technique – like Jason's example above about using a dot punch.

These can sit alongside an article, take up little extra space and can be ignored by the experienced.

Neil

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by richard 2 on 08/07/2017 17:58:47:

This is not going to be popular.

…

Richard.

I dunno what you're worried about Richard: you explained what you like and don't like. Nothing wrong with that.

Best wishes,

Dave

[Chris GillParticipant @chrisgill22114]

Posted by Iain Downs on 08/07/2017 07:55:24:

One of the challenges with being a novice at this – particularly attempting to do stuff in a self taught way is the amount of time and effort rediscovering little tricks and techniques which are second nature to those who've been doing it a while. Or of course have engineered for a living.

I regularly curse the fact that I can't simply turn round and ask one of my engineering forebears why things just went wrong. There are loads of really sound tips and hints in the magazines (ME & MEW) and the forums but if it could, somehow, be gathered together I might not make so many mistakes. In other words, yes to the original question.

[Dod MoleParticipant @georgeclarihew]

For this beginner any item that says chuck it in the 4 jaw, mount on the milling machine would be pointless as many beginners do not posses such expensive luxuries, stick with items that can be made with hand tools with the addition of a powered drill.

This approach would enable beginners to manufacture items that would satisfy their creative urges and give rise for attainable furtherance of their newly begun hobby.

[Anonymous]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 07/07/2017 20:39:34:

What do people think?

I'd go for it. I don't think it's reasonable for people to expect the magazine to cater only for their particular level of expertise. A small beginners series doesn't seem like a big sacrifice.

… and if you didn't get any backlash to Flute-Making, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 08/07/2017 20:13:12:

One thought, if authors are reading this (and I know some are), next time you write me something add in a 'text box' or two with a potted description of a useful or tricky technique – like Jason's example above about using a dot punch.

These can sit alongside an article, take up little extra space and can be ignored by the experienced.

Neil

Little snippets like this were often found within the text of larger build series in the past which is where I learnt a lot of what I know not having an engineering background. It did depend on the author with some having a more "useful" writing style than others.

I think it is well known that I am not into locos but early on did read ones because a lot of what was described was equally applicable to any aspect of the hobby. What someone is writing about marking out loco frames can just as easily apply to traction engine hornplates, scratch built stationary engine parts, hole positions on an upgrade part for a motorbike etc.

The hardest part of writing any article aimed at the beginner is where do you pitch it. Do you assume they don't know one end of a scriber from another or the difference between mild steel or silver steel. Or do you assume they already have a lathe and then if so do you just say face off the part or do you have to tell them how to grind and mount a suitable cutting tool.

I don't think there is any one level that you can aim at and each author will have to aim it where they think.

Neil maybe you could ask any author who submits a beginners article if they would be willing to start a thread on it and then put the link in teh mag, that way any beginner with a question on that specific item will not feel so intimidated about asking questions. Thread could also include a few more extra photos that would otherwise have padded out teh article, maybe a video of the item in action, 3d images as that may be easier for a beginner to understand if they can't read drawings well.

J

[JuddyParticipant @juddy]

As a beginner, I would very much like to see a series aimed at 'me' in MEW. I can find all sorts of tips and useful things to make on the internet, but what I don't see is a clear explanation of the different types of milling cutters – 2 flute, 3 flute, 4 flute, piloted, dove tail etc. and their ideal use and how to use them. Its basics like that I need.

I have worked in industry for 35 years, completed an electro-mechanical apprenticeship, overhauling diesel-electric loco's (including some electric and steam loco's), then worked for a manufacturer of industrial diesel engines and tractors.

But apart from some machining basics during my apprenticeship, I have never touched a milling machine until now. So a series on basics is very welcome – I'm sure that a lot of beginners don't know even how to file a cube square.

If I can suggest some titles:

Files – types/shape, use, how to file square, file buttons etc.. (surprising how few 'engineers' can file square)

lathe tools – HSS, inserts different shapes what they are for, cutting different materials, speeds, tool grinding.

milling tools – cutters, slitting saws, face cutters, etc..

Thread cutting – angles, tools, taps, dies, different holders, machine cutting etc..

Measuring – instruments, how to read an imperial micrometer, slip blocks, height gauges, surface tables etc..

Drills – different materials, point angles, sharping, HSS or not, deep drilling, very small drills, speeds etc.

I'm sure a lot of this can be found in MEW past issues, but it is usually deep within the text of projects and quite often off the particular articles main subject matter.

You get the idea.

Edited By Malcolm Judd on 09/07/2017 10:02:09

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I think the potential problem with beginners articles is that they only reach those beginners who buy the magazine at the right time. Once published and become a back number, either they need to subscribe online to get the digital archive or buy back issues. Given that already, and to an increasing extent, everyone uses the web, especially the younger people that we really need to get into the hobby (and profession!), I'd suggest that an archive of pdf's of beginner articles be made available FOR FREE on this website so people who get a passing interest, maybe from seeing a paper copy of the mag or coming across this site when surfing or searching, can get some real value without paying that will help motivate them to either buy the mag or subscribe.

[Iain DownsParticipant @iaindowns78295]

I very much like John's idea of having this 'beginners' articles collected on this web site (or a related one – I'm not sure the technology of this site lends itself to that sort of content).

One thing which would make this valuable is good indexing / search rather than a 'random' list of articles, being able to find 'centre-punch' or finish would make it much easier to get value from it.

I've two views on 'free'. On the one hand I think you could reasonably have it inside the paywall for ME/MEW customers only – adding value. If you made it free you would have a great Googlable search resource which would draw new prospective subscribers to the real magazine.

To add to Malcom's list, even something as 'simple' as accurate sawing is actually quite hard to do (well for me, though I'm getting better). And my favourite of all which is scraping…

Iain

[Iain DownsParticipant @iaindowns78295]

Another thing which would be helpful would be a guide to terminology – ideally a visual guide.

This is triggered by the excellent video on trepanning on a post a few minutes ago. I made a fixed steady as one of my first proper jobs a year or two ago. I had to take out 3 inches of the middle a 4 inch bar. I wanted to do this with (what I now know is) a trepanning tool but had no idea how to search for the process. I ended up boring out from the middle. Worked, but a lot of waste steel.

I now know of several ways of doing this, but couldn't even ask the question then.

(Mandrels, Arbours, Indexable and other religious vocabulary has take a long time to more or less get my head round!)

Iain

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

Not everybody likes every article in any magazine and will usually just skip it and ignore it.

I am sure like me there are many out there who aren't interested in pen making, steam loco's, or several other regular topics,

Yet I don't complain I simply skip those articles and move onto something I am interested in

Surely this isn't too difficult to do, and a mere two pages in any magazine won't cause that much of a problem to anybody.

A site or magazine that doesn't cover the whole spectrum will soon die as all the oldies will also do eventually and where would that leave the magazine

those up coming with similar interest with little or no experience won't subscribe to one with all the articles way over their heads

Magazine's and web sites need to cater for the many not the few to survive !!

 

Tony

PS +1 for the terminology guide and other suggestions posed by the previous poster Iain

Edited By Antony Powell on 09/07/2017 12:14:09

Edited By Antony Powell on 09/07/2017 12:14:41

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I think a lot of people forget that they had to learn how to use tools and techniques, just the same as some car drivers seem to forget they were learners themselves before they got their full licence. I've no objection to the beginner articles, and who knows, I may even find an easier way of doing something that I've done all my life, every day is a school day as a late cousin of mine used to say. In contrast, it is a shame that many schools don't seem to teach metal or woodwork like they used too, where the use of dot and centre punches ect, was explained. I feel I was lucky to have a farther who taught me how to use basic tools and a lathe and having a very good metalwork teacher at school, along with what I believe to be a basic instinct of mechanical things. From starting work after school I found it quite easy to grasp the work I went into and after just a few years could show some of the old timers some much more efficient and labour saving techniques of doing the same job that they had been doing for years.

Regards Nick.

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

Some advice to anyone thinking of contributing. Try the technique you are suggesting using the wrong hand. This will help you to realise the difficulties faced by anyone who has never tried to file anything flat, or hit a centre-punch square on the head.

And when you have a collection of articles, Neil, why not put them on the website so that the new forum members can be referred to them – no need for an extra subscription, just for this, surely?

Cheers, Tim

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