Ally Pally show

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

What this is all about is economics. If the traders are charged less for a stand then the cost to us for entry goes up. We have seen from the above posts that many of you are unhappy with the cost of the day out at present prices, if the entry is increased then less people will attend, it becomes a vicious circle. The show organisers have a balancing act to perform because at the end of the day they need to make a profit. Even local shows need to show some profit in order to make it worthwhile, they cannot afford to run at a loss either.What it boils down to is if you want the shows then you will have to pay for them, simple economics! That applies to traders as well as us ordinary punters.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Dusty,

I cannot fault your thinking on this with one exception.

Taken ten years ago all this would be true but today we have the internet. The figure of £8000 has been bandied about for a show for the larger traders but this isn't the end of it, reckon in fuel, vehicle hire or in Warco's case he runs his own 42 tonne artic and they don't come cheap and unlike his other 7 1/2 tonners which do deliveries as well this unit is show use only.

Then hotels, overtime for stand employees, meals etc and you can add on half as much again.

So say £12,000 if you are selling on a markup of 100% [ fat chance ] you need to sell £18,000 worth of goods in 3 days just to break even.

So as Dusty says it's all about economics.

Now we have readers on here from all walks of life, many from an IT background and they will be able to tell me better how much it costs per year to run a web based company alongside a physical shop.

Certainly not 12 grand and you have the shop open 24 / 7 / 365 just not 3 days.

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

Ten years ago I couldn't get a stand at the NEC for the Spring or Autumn shows. I could "get on the list".

Today the organisers email addresses are in my Spam filter because I get so many offers to attend at "Great Rates" it has become annoying.

Go figure.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Might be worth clubs in the west doing a coach.

We did one for Bristol this year and in the old days used to do the midlands. Even one passenger can halve the cost of a car but there can be problems with people who only want ten minutes and then start whining that there is nothing there and want to go home. Quite a lot of our retired members do half a dozen in a people carrier.

[wendy jacksonParticipant @wendyjackson]

Last year taunton club went by coach to the show just outside Warwick. But I dont think there is much interest in travelling further then that.michael

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

My experience of shows in recent years –

Joint 1st = Harrogate & Bristol. Both quite a"flog" from Brighton, but very worthwhile.

2nd = ME xbn. Not too far to go, quite a doddle.

3rd = Pickets Lock, LondonME show. Usually very bad weather. 2013, booked up to go with club coach but ill on the day. 2014, said "hang it" had enough of bad weather, not doing that one again. Also, coach used to drop us @ front steps but in 2012, we were dumped round the back thanks to the parking idiots and we got frozen and soaked traipsing round to the front. So mad I said i`d not go again, little realising just how true that would become!

4th = Brighton Modelworld. Flash the bus-pass and short walk! Mostly "pins-and-glue." Expensive entry. No ME traders. Only Worthing, Brighton, maybe Uckfield clubs with engines I can see on any trackday. Just not worth going.

I usually do Bristol as a very long day trip. I find Harrogate bit of a tiring trip just one way so has to be an over-2-night do, which starts to cost quite a lot. Got it down to a fine art now with accomodation as low as it gets and I dont reckon to pay around £8 for a so-called breakfast of a few miserable bits. Either sarnies from Sainsburys (and petrol) as they are close by or fry-up @ a cafe. I know a good chippy for evening meal in H. Not healthy eating but just 2 days doesn`t matter. Normally do Bristol most years and Harrogate alternate years due to cost.

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Forgot Guildford in July. Gone every year and liked it – not far to drive again. Shock, horror! 2013 show so awful may not go this year. Shame on organisers.

Also forgot Midlands show in Warwicks. Went about 3 years ago not impressed, find it quite a rotten journey from Brighton, probably wont go again.

West country xbn – too expensive and probably noy enough engineering interest.

Manchester xbn, too far to be bothered.

So there you have it FWIW

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I, for one, would like to exhibit more models (I've only put one in a show once). I'm a bit nervous of competitions, but happy to enter a loan. 'The work of 'ordinary mortals' is important as it give encouragment to speople startiong out and those who will never win a DoE award.

The problem is that even MMEX was a 90-mile round trip, so doing that twice to drop off and collect was a pain, especially as both delivery and pick up were outside the main exhibition times – I ended up going three times so I could see the full show (my dad and one of my brothers came along and met up with me as well).

In short, if we are to see plenty of models (which is what makes a show for me and gets plenty of punters in) some sort of pick up and return service would make a big difference – although who would want to take the responsibility of moving other people's models these days?

Neil

[D.A.GodleyParticipant @d-a-godley]

I have to agree with Limpet, we use these shows or we lose them !. The internet is great and most useful but as Supermarkets were to Corner Shops , it will be the death of the Shows as they are just now, if not used in a responsible way.

As I said earlier, I went to the Show at Ally Pally, but could not carry all that I wanted, I therefore dealt with one of the Traders who had Exhibited there over the phone this week and bought what I wanted, the point being that, though I could purchase cheaper from some suppliers who had not been at the show, I felt strongly that those who had been there had earned the right to have the business, whats more ,having informed this particular supplier of this, they matched their competitors price. Win , Win in my view.

Oompa Lumpa seems to contradict what the majority are saying in regard to Exhibitors costs, he says , if I understand him correctly, that he is bombarded with great rates as an inducement to take a show stand ?,are these rates not also on offer to the other traders ?.

I personally think that the shows have been used by certain traders to establish their businesess, and having done so, and having created a decent customer base from the modelling fraternity, they now wish to profit from our business without attending the shows. I strongly urge anyone making a purchase to use those who provide us with the respect of exhibiting at our various shows and in turn support them wherever possible.

[LimpetParticipant @limpet]

I'm with you all the way DAG. After all it's us punters that really have the say who we buy from. Just a note on models on the net and I do a lot of net searching both at home and at work it's just not in the same league as seeing something in the flesh it's akin to watching a film on the telly or going to the live show and 90% of us are prepared to pay extra for the live show.

[Billy MillsParticipant @billymills]

My wife and I have been selling in another Hobby market for 10 years, we make everything we sell in my garage workshop by using CNC . We now attend one third of the UK shows that we started at because the smaller shows are just not profitable, so now it's four UK shows per year, not 12. But we now fly to the USA to trade at two shows which cost us half of the UK stand costs and give us 250% increased takings. We also have almost the same experience in F, D and NL however we can drive there!

By going abroad we also help stimulate web sales which are very much cheaper than " UK Show" sales, most of our trade comes from outside the UK now. Like many other exhibitors we are seriously considering pulling out of UK shows, many traders have already realised that the ever increasing UK exhibition charges have priced them out of their local markets. Running a stand is hard work, a two day show is at least a three or four day event for a trader, it costs a lot of money paid in advance. So if you cannot get a small reward then you learn the hard way and don't repeat the mistake. It is not a matter of "rights to business" or any other romantic notion, if you don't earn then the "punters" have voted you out next time. Simple, honest and hard.

Signs of Show decline include the reduced number of trade stands and the increase in seating and free stands to help fill the Hall. It is an unstable state, as the trade stands decline those traders left have to pay much more to give others more free space. Any new traders then face much greater start up costs which stops them from starting! There has been mention of reduced rate stands, this is the quickest way of closing a show down ever devised. Traders talk to each other and belong to associations, if anyone ever picked up that free or discounted stands were being offered then that would close that show if all of the existing exhibitors did not get exactly the same treatment. It would be interesting to hear of any free stands at any show- put us down for 50 stands right away and we will bring some friends.

We see very different conditions outside the UK, the venues are FAR better, you don't need wellies in the toilets and you get a good food choice without feeling that you have been mugged. These half UK cost shows are also growing in size, scope and duration and have a real international dimension. If only UK Organisers were that clever!

Billy and Sue.

[Andrew EvansParticipant @andrewevans67134]

Out of interest and being nosy – what do you make and sell Billy?

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Just been reminded that one of the advertisers on this site based less than ten miles from Ally Pally does not go to that show yet does go to Bristol.

[GaryMParticipant @garym]

As I've only been interested in model engineering for the last two years I've only been to the Harrogate and Midlands shows, which I've enjoyed. My wife and I treat them as a holiday. We stay two nights and as they are both near to attractive towns, my wife spends the day having some sort of spa treatments and doing a bit of retail therapy and I get to spend all day at the show. Costs a fortune but I think of it as a holiday with an exhibition nearby rather than an expensive day trip. I was a bit disappointed when the Manchester show (admittedly modelling rather than ME) was cancelled after only two years as there were quite a lot of youngsters with their dads and it reminded me of going to shows with my dad when I was a boy. I think there is a good chance that the 'Maker fairs' will replace them and the ME shows will die off, just like lots of us.

Gary

[nick feastParticipant @nickfeast85472]

Over the past five years I've taken a 3 1/2" gauge Q1 to show on the Polly stand at Bristol, Ally Pally, Midlands and Sandown shows. I've also organised, set up and manned dozens of trade stands in another industry over the last 40 years or so. in the UK the pattern seems to be that once an exhibition is established the organisers will milk it for all it's worth, with high charges for space and minimal investment. Many industrial trade shows have disappeared in the UK for the reasons already mentioned in this thread.

However the factor that can't be replaced by an online shop is the sociable side of meeting many like minded people, and talking about the hobby. The royalties I receive from selling Q1 parts via Polly are certainly eaten into by the expense of two visits to each show, to deliver and collect the model. I take my model as a private entry so that I can at least get away before all the trade stands are dismantled, but last year in the snow at Ally Pally the buses to the car park stopped at 5.00 on the last day so I had to slither my way down the hill to the car park with the loco and tender on a sack truck! London bus drivers don't receive much snow training.

However I have met many interesting and useful people at these shows, even getting access to a set of SR drawings for the Q1 as a result of one discussion. A pity the loco was already completed by then!

Expensive food is obligatory along with the queues to buy it, but model engineers should be ashamed of themselves if they cannot avoid this cost with a little ingenuity. The Bristol show is conveniently located close to a well known supermarket built on the site of Thornbury Station, so a cheap sandwich, a bit of exercise and some railway archaeology can be combined.

I sincerely hope the present shows can find a way to survive, the organisers do need to get the traders(and clubs) participating in bigger numbers somehow.

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Nick;

Posted by nick feast on 27/01/2014 13:57:32:

Over the past five years I've taken a 3 1/2" gauge Q1 to show on the Polly stand at Bristol, Ally Pally, Midlands and Sandown shows.

Well! That explains it! (smile) I flew trans-atlantic to Harrogate last May, 3 goals at the show; 1) meet Kirk Burwell, 2) get some 8mm silver steel for my Unimat CNC lathe, and 3) see a Q1 model in person, and, possibly meet you, too.

First two were met, but not the third. Polly stand had posters up for the Q1, but did not see any models, not even a chassis. The club stands were *packed* but did not find one there, either.

Oh well – had to go to the NRM twice and say hi to the larger Q1, to try and appease my sense of disappointment. And, go walking in the North York Moors for a week with wife and friends.

Such is life!

John A. Stewart.

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