Steam Traction World in administration

[BaldricParticipant @baldric]

https://steamtractionworld.co.uk/ states they are in administration, I hope that does not affect to many people part way through a kit build.

Mark.

[alecsParticipant @alecs]

I saw on a Facebook group that the administrators are not planning to supply parts to those with part built models. Doors are shut and that is it, apparently.

[Adrian R2Participant @adrianr2]

The administrators role is to impartially get the best value for creditors – they will invite offers for the business as a going concern, in parts or to break up and sell assets. Sometimes they keep a business running meantime if they think that will improve likelihood of a sale, in this case they probably figure that customers can wait until the process is complete. Best hope is that there is enough of an order book to make it worthwhile someone continuing production.

[JAParticipant @ja]

I have just looked their forum which has a posting, 5.52pm on 8 May, saying that an Indian company has bought the business. Could be rumour etc.

JA

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

The stage payment based kit seems a dangerous place to go ! It started with Winson, was followed by Modelworks and so it seems this is another, where the customer is at considerable risk. The only safe way is to buy a kit, THE WHOLE kit, in one big box and build it. NOT lots of little boxes, that may spread the cost but you run the risk of getting only part of the kit.

I feel for those caught in this trap, having spent many thousands of pounds and are now stuck ! Good Luck.  Noel.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Crucially what sort of drawings are supplied with the kit?

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

If its like winson/ modelworks then you get no dimension ed drawings – you don’t need them, it’s a machined set of parts, you will get assembly drawings to put it together. Noel.

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

Quite likely an Indian company would buy them, as STW would have been a big customer for them. This could be a lifeline.

I understood most of their castings were from India. This is the 4th time they went bust,

 

 

Chris Gunn

[Les RileyParticipant @lesriley75593]

In some ways it might be a blessing in disguise. There is already a big surplus of steam lorries and Burrell agricultural engines wanting to get in to steam rallies.

Organisers want a spread of engine types for interest, not all the same.

 

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

If there’s that many about they might be a first port of call for help/drawings etc.

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

Maybe we could switch to building clocks?

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Les – 

Maybe so but that’s a bit harsh on those now faced with an expensively half-built engine.

One might hope for another supplier to buy the remaining stocks to sell on to those able to prove the stage they have reached; but if STW was working some sort of “just in time” arrangement, there may be few if any such stocks available.

[alecsParticipant @alecs]

Apparently the stock and machinery have been sold at auction already. Amid accusations of asset stripping from a previous owner. But no evidence forthcoming to verify that. It all sounds rather sad

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

It is very sad – for the dozen or so staff as well as customers, of course.

Would there even have been much stock apart from common smaller components?

Do these kit-subscription firms use a sort of “just-in-time” system, so the next set of bits are not actually made until nearly time for posting them to the customer?

If so buying an entire box of parts would not have been possible – but for the company to have ordered whole batches of entire kits in the hope of selling them all in trickles of bits and pieces over the next couple of years or so, would not seem commercially sensible.

It must be a gamble even for the like of Blackgates and Reeves, who sell castings sets with no set duty on customers to purchase the lot in one go; but giving the freedom to do so. They do seem to end up with occasional clearance sales of orphaned castings, some of them foundry over-runs, but STW, Winsons etc. all invested in selling machined parts – an even bigger investment – and by piecemeal sales.

It can only work if the builders’ orders for the next set of parts are what trigger the company’s orders to its suppliers, but even then it seems commercially risky.

It will be interesting to see what happens in this case, with allegations- and they are only allegations – of asset-stripping, and liquidators who clearly don’t care about the customers, only the debts to the banks (and their own fees). Who bought apparently only the name (if all the physical assets have gone by auction), and for what purpose?

 

I have just paused to look on’net.

Companies House shows a peculiar history, with a Dean Rogers floating in and out of the boardroom over the firm’s 16 year life, a Stephen Baldock whose name rings a bell for me (I wonder if the same man, the model-engineer who built a large-scale replica of the [Burrel?] caterpiller-tracked traction-engine?), and the involvement of a firm called Asco Fixings Ltd.

Asco is a very small company based in London but using factories in “low cost India” – its own web-site tells us – making primarily specific fasteners and other small components for manufacturers of complete machines.

Presumably Asco was making components for the traction-engine kits, but it seemed to have taken a shareholding or directorial interest in STW. too. Quite why, is hard to understand despite the very wide range of its customer-companies’ products.

 

Ironically, or oddly, the Steam Traction World website’s main page tells us it was liquidated (by Bridgestone Insolvency Practioners) on May 8th, but the rest of the blurb is all there, pretty pictures, Forum invitations and all.

I don’t understand balance-sheets as an accountant would; but those published by Companies House suggest to me that STW never had a huge amount of money by commercial standards, a rather low turn-over, and slowly diminishing capital.

Nor did it seem to have very valuable assets by the end, although none are itemised or classified. That might explain Bridgestone’s lack of interest in the unfortunate customers: there were few or no further engine parts to sell.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Given that a lot of the parts would have been made with CNC there are very good savings to be made by running batches rather than one offs as the setup time is greatly reduces a sit only needs to be done once then it is only a case of removing a machined part and replacing with the next casting or block or raw material. Turned parts the machine will feed the bar for you.

I seem to remember seeing boilers photographed in batches of 10 or more, again batch work is cheaper but there is a capital outlay.

This is similar to how the Chinese produce their ready to run IC and steam engines, batches of a few hundred at a time.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

If you want examples of batches of parts being made then look at this STW Facebook page. Even the boilers go into a CNC machine a few times. They even do the hydro test in batches linking many boilers together and just using one pump.

Also interesting to see how much is cut from solid rather than using castings, for example the cylinders for the 2″ traction engines are cut from solid where as most people making their own would by castings. many bespoke jugs and jaws for second ops which is why it pays to work in batches as once set up you only need swap parts and can be onto the next machine while the first is beavering away.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1171730757476999/

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

Nigel, you are right about Steve Baldock, unfortunately no longer with us, he did build the tracked engine you mention, plus a lot more, and would have been missed on the technical front. Dean Rodgers is now promoting clock kits, as per my cryptic comment earlier.

Chris Gunn

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Steve’s tracked engine was very nice machine

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Yes _ I recall seeing the tractor running at the Model Steam Road Vehicle Rally, years ago now; and that fence suggests that is where you photographed it.

I see it was made by Hornsby: somehow I thought it a Burrell.

It had a peculiar pitching motion due to the lower run of track being an inverted arch, with only about three treads square to the ground.

Steve also gave the miniature proper acetylene lighting, using a modern version and its calcium-carbide made for caving, inside casings that replicated the 19C original.

Not content with just the engine, over the next couple of years or so Steve built several wagons of the correct form to tow as a road-train, as the prototype vehicle. (The original tractor and wagon set was built for hauling goods between the harbour and inland Yukon gold-mines. It grew an enclosed cab at some point, likely on site, to give the crew some protection from the harsh weather.)

 

I did wonder what happened to Steve. I had had no idea he became a Steam Traction World director.

I hope the engine and wagons are in good hands, to honour him.

[deano155Participant @deano155]

Morning,

 

After discovering this post I’d like to put my twopenneth in based on a number of comments.

1. Dean Rogers (me) did not float in and out of STW during its 18 years in business. I was there from day one until i left in Dec 2024. I actually greed to sell STW in Nov 2023 (which as closer to 60 than 50 year old owner of a company who started as a partnership but ended up running it alone due to his partners passing was my right to do so) however after agreeing to only keep 5% was told the deal would fall through unless i kept 33%. I agreed to stay on 12 months but was unhappy at the direction the company was going so walked away in Dec 2024…..18 months prior to then going under.
2. While checking Companies House did you also see that STW paid Corporation tax and made a profit every single year? At the time of agreeing the sale it had been one of the best years ever. Yes juggling cash flow was never easy but it never is in any small business. Get the stuff out the door, you get paid. Don’t get it out, you don’t get paid….but that said we were very successful.
3. To the person who said….maybe its a blessing in disguise. What a pathetic comment. STW produced 1600 engines in the time Steve and I ran in (together for 10 years and then 6 years on my own after he passed). Many of those customers would not have been introduced to model engineering without us and many of them thank us for enhancing their lives! Typical bigoted comment from someone who just because they have the ability to manufacture ‘most’ parts they’ll put down those that are unable to. STW enhanced and changed the miniature sections on the rally fields for the better in a dying industry.
4. Asco originally had no connection with STW. They bought in thinking they could manufacture cheaper and make bigger profits but did not want to listen, learn or understand the fundamentals of why the business has been successful for 16 years (prior to selling) so supplied from their partner company in India substandard parts which were then rejected by me….as a circa 1/3rd shareholder at that stage i had no voice.
5. Reference the assets comment. The company owned £250k min machinery which were sold off prior to them going into liquidation in a fire sale for around £175k with also many machines, surface tables etc going back to India in a container.  Additional to this there was the equivalent of a couple of hundred thousand in designs, patterns, spare parts etc. Many of the parts were picked and sold as either complete or incomplete engines again prior to liquidation with false invoices created to take that cash from the company. Something i have evidence of and have provided the liquidator with.
Steve & I owned the factory (which i bought his share from his kids when he passed) so rather than pay ourselves massively accrued our wealth from within the business in other ways.
6. Creditors. As far as i am aware 33 people were left with engines unfinished. The biggest creditor for this who like to snoop was me owed £152k+ This can be clarified by Bridgestones! After the demise a number of people put bids in for the designs and the stock that remained (there was no patterns as the directors out of spite scrapped all them out!). Despite happily enjoying retirement (and yes as per the comment starting as a side line some clock kits) i did not want to see customers with unfinished engines so put a bid in, which i believe, mainly due to my contacts and ability to try to complete the engines was accepted. So not only was i over £150k out of pocket i then paid a further 5 figures for the designs and assets and set up STWspares. This was at the beginning of July. Since i’ve set that up i have been able to complete 10 engines and am waiting for a delivery of parts (bear in mind i now have no machines) to complete a further 6. This reduces the number of people with part finished engines to 17! My longer term plan is to do what i can to complete the engines left, sell spares if people need them and go back to retirement and growing a clock range I’m quite enjoy tinkering with and deleloping.

I really hope this gives some background and clarifucation.

P.S. Steve’s crawler was one of the best Miniature engines ever produced. I am proud to have played a small part in helping some of it along the way as i am with the 2 x Steamers he produced. For me as someone who has manufactured himself he sits on a pedestal with Edward George as the best model engineers to have lived.

 

 

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Thankyou very much for that detailed explanation, Dean.

I wonder how many companies disappear because they are bought by bean-counters who have no idea what the business actually does, nor understand its market?

I was acquainted with Steve Baldock in a minor way as a fellow MSRVS member, and his is a sad loss. I trust the engine is in good hands.

[Author]

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