Octopus Heat Pump

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I am being encouraged by Octopus Energy, to apply for the £9k grant towards a Heat Pump [replacing my Oil boiler]

I have a lot of thinking to do, but meanwhile I would welcome any comments about the actual contraption that they are offering:

https://octopus.energy/heat-pump-explore/

 

MichaelG.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

The Octopus unit uses propane as the refrigerant, hence it is capable of generating higher output temperature than many heat pumps.  Use of propane is a relatively recent development.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks for that, David

MichaelG.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

I can’t comment on what Octopus (my own supplier) are offering, as we’ve currently decided not to go down that route.
Much of the advantages may be lost on us in a large house with 30 year old insulation standards.
We currently use a mains gas boiler system, with one additional gas fire, so may well have come to a different conclusion if we were on propane or oil.

This article by Dale Vince’s group may give further food for thought; he’s not against heat pumps themselves by the way.

https://dalevince.com/reports/the-cold-hard-facts-about-heat-pumps

Bill

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

If you have solar panels then you can think of a hot water system as being like an energy storage system for the solar energy. So if you are getting low cost mains electricity at night and solar electricity during the day there may be a good saving to make if oil prices are rising fast.

Martin C

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Do keep us informed if you go ahead. I see endless ‘offers’ of £7k grants so maybe they are upping the ante – or pretending to.

<interrupt> at this point while writing my reply I got a rare landline call which was a recorded message claiming to be from some power distribution company. Coincidence? Excuse me while I scan the house for hidden cameras.

I suspect the grant is dependant on you spending £30k on upgraded radiators, windows, insulation and a far bigger heat pump than necessary to mimic the output power of an overspec’ed gas boiler. All sourced from the contractors giving the biggest kickback to the heating consultant. (that job creation scheme Boris introduced after lockdown.)
We really all need to cut back to only heating one room to 68F max like we grew up with.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

The recent posts are all welcomed, but largely irrelevant to my case

I shall be asking Octopus some questions

Please keep the comments coming

MichaelG.

[JAParticipant @ja]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Special thanks to Bill for the link, from which I quote:

Heat pumps work best in homes that are:

Well insulated
Low heat-loss
Able to run low-temperature heating systems

 

Significantly … My little house currently fails every one of those criteria !

The project to upgrade it has only recently commenced

MichaelG.

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

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https://octopus.energy/heat-pump-installation/

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https://a.storyblok.com/f/275131/x/98640577e4/cosy-user-manual.pdf

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Just to note that the government 0% vat on heat pump installations expires March 31st next year. After that you pay 5% vat on them, so getting in before then will save you 5%.

To qualify you have to have the equipment both supplied and installed by the same person/company.

This also applies to permanent install air-con systems BTW.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Be aware that to get the grant, you will need a report showing that your building doesn’t need any work to meet the insulation etc. requirements of the scheme.

I had to get some additional loft insulation (at my expense) to bring it up to current standards, before qualifying for the grant for my heat pump.  The cost of the survey may be ‘free’ (but rolled into final cost, by the heat pump provider).

That extra insulation led to issues with condensation in the loft – fairly easy to resolve, but the insulation contractor wasn’t interested!

Some companies are only interested in the grants, and are not good technically.   I had more than one company tell me my house was not suitable, due to microbore piping.  House  heating and hot water now provided by heat pump, heating still by microbore – one radiator upgraded.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

I assume this is an air-water heat pump. The prime question is how hot the water is. Some systems require larger radiators and plumbing. If you have microbore pipework it may have to be replaced. The next question is how much will you have to pay on top of the grant?

Personally I went for air-air heat pumps in both my previous flat and current home. No grants but has the huge advantage of providing cooling as well as heating. That has been great over the last couple of months. Went for a multi-split system so only two outdoor units for 5 rooms. For some reason the installers were pushing for a 1:1 setup which is daft. We have a mix of gas and electric for water heating. Both on-demand so no stored hot water loosing energy and warming up the house in warm weather.

Robert.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Michael, I sent you a PM.

[Adrian R2Participant @adrianr2]

My thoughts:

The actual contraption from Octopus looks like a council bin and I wouldn’t want one on my property.

I wouldn’t do anything just because it came with a government grant attached, it has to make sense on its own merits.

A2A with both heat and cool modes as per Robert’s post make a lot of sense with hotter summers, these were initially excluded from incentive schemes but are now I think also in scope so you might want to get a quote for that as well and compare.

All in one units (e.g. Panasonic RAC solo) are also available if you don’t want or can’t have stuff outside.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks, Adrian

You’re spot-on with the visuals !

and I agree that Air-to-Air makes a lot of sense, conceptually …

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

For info.

I wrote to Octopus yesterday, and am awaiting their reply

MichaelG.

 

 

Subject: Heat Pump to replace Oil Boiler

I have just submitted my house name for an instant estimate

**** ***   CH8 ***

This looks attractive, but I have some special circumstances which I need to discuss

Basically, the house is in need of extensive thermal upgrading … a ‘rolling’ project which I have just commenced. … But of course I am keen to get the £9k whilst it is available.

Could you please therefore advise me : What is the minimum installationwhich would qualify for the grant ?

In the short-term, I would be happy to have a heat pump providing hot water and driving a couple of radiators [all on the ground floor] and would use electric heating elsewhere.
I can then extend the system as-and-when appropriate insulation has been installed.

The property is a very small Dormer-Bungalow, which presents some “interesting” challenges …but I have engaged an excellent contractor to work with me.

I look forward to hearing from you.

[MacolmParticipant @macolm]

Robert, I presume a substantial advantage of the air-air implementation is a lower delivery temperature of the air rather than the higher temperature needed for water radiators. This should translate to a higher COP, since this decreases quickly with increasing temperature difference between source and delivery media. Is this indeed the case in practice?

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks to Robert and Adrian however … My interest in Air-to-Air systems has been revived!

I may be able to install one of these units in the Dormer, by replacing half of the window on the ‘half-landing’ of the stairs.

Grateful for any thoughts or links to suppliers.

MichaelG.

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https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/advice/air-to-air-heat-pumps/

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

[VicParticipant @vic]

Just as a point of interest. I picked the brains of an acquaintance last year about Air Conditioning as until very recently he was a consultant in the industry. One thing he mentioned was not to forget you can use AC units for heating as well as cooling. He said his own use at home is 80% heating 20% cooling. The installer also mentioned the cost advantage of using our AC unit for heating over our GCH. We only have the AC in our lounge but we have used it for heating a couple of times. Now we have solar panels and a home battery we may try using it a bit more.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks, Robert

For context … I could just add this to my recent posts:

The window in my Dormer is unnecessarily large … it spans almost  the full  width of the two half-staircases, and is generously high

A quick check with the Disto shows 1681w  x 1589h internally

Given that the “view” is mostly the slate roof of the adjacent converted-chapel, I could probably sacrifice 50% to a monobloc heat-pump, directing the warm air down the stairs and letting it rise naturally throughout the building.

Yes … the house is very small

MichaelG.

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P.S. … I already have an electric shower, and could happily manage with instantaneous heaters for the sink and washbasin

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