Ally Pally show

[JoParticipant @jo]

Both the Model Engineering Ex and the Ally Pally shows are no longer well attended by Model Engineering traders because of the vast costs for them to attend the shows and the fact that most of their trade these days comes from the internet.

As for models in the old days there were loads more, but then I recall that the shows used to encourage us to send our models by providing a free collection and return service. I for one am discouraged from entering any of my models as I don't want the hassle of the queues trying to get your model in early on the first day and get it back late on the last day.

All in all it is a vicious circle: Less models/traders = less reason to go, less people go, less reason for the traders..show doesn't make enough money = no more shows

Jo

[Thomas GudeParticipant @thomasgude37285]

This was my second year at both shows and I was amazed at how busy Ally Pally was! The snow obviously kept some back last year. I went on the Saturday and to be honest I found it very crowded and hard to get a good conversation going or a look at something before being scrummed out the way.

Or was it just me?

[Halton TankParticipant @haltontank]

Saturday was by far the busiest day. At times it was very difficult to move down the aisles. Friday and Sunday a little bit quieter but not by that much. They used to announce attendance figures at least for the first two days, but if they did I did not hear it as the PA was impossible to understand.

Regards Luigi

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Busy on Saturday? ! you should have been there a few years ago. We couldn't decide if it was few people or one fewer line of stands to give more room that made it seem so empty.

Mr Moo you are right the shows 20 yrs ago were way better and have been on the decline for about 20 years since the big one in Olympia when some some sad individuals complained that it contained 5 very interesting dolls houses not made of metal. Add to the confusion that this is the show that used to be known as 'Pickets lock' and the original Ally Pally show is now at Sandown and even smaller.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by Mr Moo on 20/01/2014 08:40:10:

It is probably 22 or 23 years since I last went to this show. I almost wish I had not gone now. It seemed very small and threadbare from how I remember it but that may well be "rose tinted memories".

However, on a positive note, I got several bargains. All the traders I spoke with were very helpful and I got some, for me, excellent details pictures on the 2" Minnie on display. Now to continue the search for a 4 jaw indy to fit the Sofia c8m……….

Hi Mr Moo, this show only started 18 years ago, i.e. "The London Model Engineers Exhibition". It was first held, quite rightly as Bazyle said, at the Lee Valley Leisure Centre, Maridian Way (Pickets Lock Lane) in Edmonton and was held there each year untill 2001. In 2002 and 2003 it was held at the Wembley Exhibiton Centre next to Wembley stadium. In 2004 it was then first held in Alexandra Palace where it has been held ever since including this last weekend, which they boast, that the show has come of age and celebrating 18 great years, on the front of thier free show guide.

The show you went to 22/3 years ago was most likely to have been the "Model Engineers Exhibition" which is the one connected with this forum and has been held at Sandown park in recent years. I can remember going to a MEX at Ally Pally once, but when I first went to any MEX's it was held in Olympia.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 20/01/2014 20:35:37

[D.A.GodleyParticipant @d-a-godley]

I attended the show on Saturday and thought it was busy , certainly busier than on previous visits, however, the reduced number of Trade people was disappointing, but I think those who did attend should be commended.

Warco had a comprehensive stand as did RDG, these seem to be the mainstays whichever show you attend, Chester were reduced but there! and Axminster attended, albeit with more staff than products on offer, well it appeared that way to me, but again, well done for turning in. Small tool suppliers were there and all having items to temp , I had backache carrying home my purchases.

There is certainly some appeal to the greater range of interests at this show compared with others and it was good to see so many youngsters( I am 69 ) getting so much out of the demonstrations ranging from flying ,metal bashing robots trucks, Boats, and hands on lathe work.

As has been said earlier , its not the best show, that used to be Donnington until it moved to its current site,that said,it was only a nats whisker in front of Harrogate which now reigns supreme, nothing to touch it. I have not done Bristol yet ,this year I hope, may reorganise preferences after that, we will see.

I do hope most had just such an enjoyable day as did I .

regards, DAG

[Mr MooParticipant @mrmoo]

Posted by Nicholas Farr on 20/01/2014 20:21:13:

Posted by Mr Moo on 20/01/2014 08:40:10:

It is probably 22 or 23 years since I last went to this show. I almost wish I had not gone now. It seemed very small and threadbare from how I remember it but that may well be "rose tinted memories".

However, on a positive note, I got several bargains. All the traders I spoke with were very helpful and I got some, for me, excellent details pictures on the 2" Minnie on display. Now to continue the search for a 4 jaw indy to fit the Sofia c8m……….

Hi Mr Moo, this show only started 18 years ago, i.e. "The London Model Engineers Exhibition". It was first held, quite rightly as Bazyle said, at the Lee Valley Leisure Centre, Maridian Way (Pickets Lock Lane) in Edmonton and was held there each year untill 2001. In 2002 and 2003 it was held at the Wembley Exhibiton Centre next to Wembley stadium. In 2004 it was then first held in Alexandra Palace where it has been held ever since including this last weekend, which they boast, that the show has come of age and celebrating 18 great years, on the front of thier free show guide.

The show you went to 22/3 years ago was most likely to have been the "Model Engineers Exhibition" which is the one connected with this forum and has been held at Sandown park in recent years. I can remember going to a MEX at Ally Pally once, but when I first went to any MEX's it was held in Olympia.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 20/01/2014 20:35:37

Hello Nick,

You're probably right, my memories are hazy to say the least!

All the best,

Ben

[WALLACEParticipant @wallace]

I missed the man drillimg holes in files and bearings !

That I remember seeing years ago when the exhibition was at Seymour Hall.

I hate to think how many filea he’s got through over the last 40 years or so since then… .

W.

Edited By WALLACE on 21/01/2014 00:47:26

[Bill RobleyParticipant @billrobley]

I went to the show on Saturday with a view to spending some of my hard earned.

I found it difficult, and in one case, impossible, to get what I wanted as Chronos had decided not to attend. Warco and DSG were there with the normal size stands but most other traders seemed to have scaled back or pushed up the prices to compensate. Even the stand with the woman normally sitting high above her stand (Regulars will know who I mean) on a set of steps had a normal chair, the stand was so small. upon talking to one of the traders it seems that the smallest stand you can get costs £1000 for the three days, so I can see how it would be difficult for smaller traders to make anything like a profit.

Sadly, before too much longer, I can see this show going the way of the old Picketts Lock electronics fair; moved to somewhere cheaper but more difficult to get to and then just quietly fade into memory.

Or, maybe it's just me getting cynical in my old age.

[SmudgeParticipant @smudge]

Flown over from Jersey, I was little disappointed than no deals to be had. It would have been nice to see a beginners stand to guide people forward.

Great to see old machines turning.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Four of us went, on Saturday. On a Group ticket, it cost us £8.25 each from Peterborough. (Free shuttle bus from/to A.P. rly station

With tickets booked on line, we just walked straight in.

Something to bear in mind for the future.

Looking forward to Harrogate, but there is going to be show at Springfields in Spalding 26/27 April, so hope to see what thats like.

Howard

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Any details on the Springfield show ?

[IDPParticipant @idp]

I remember the ModelEngineering Exhibitions at Bingley Hall in Birmingham, must be about thirty odd years ago, now that really was an exhibition.

In my opinion I believe the writting is on the wall for commercially run exhibitions and that the way forward will be exhibitions organised by engineering societies. Maybe the various federations should get together an organise something.

Regards,

IDP

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

I believe IDP is correct and I'm not the only one. Ivan Law himself remarked to one of the judges at a recent show after having had a look around as said much the same thing.

It's a vicious circle that has already stared and I feel it can't be stopped, Contrary to what was written in an above post Harrogate is a commercial enterprise, run very well by the Rex family.

I might need correcting but I think the only large scale exhibitions 'privately' run are Bristol which is run by the Bristol club and Sandown which is run by the owners of this forum.

Things have moved on from the once or twice a year large show that had immense attendance because they were the only shows.

It then got spawned off into regional shows at were immediately smaller because they had a smaller catchment area

I wish I had a pound for every time I have said to someone are you going to the Midlands show as an example and they have said, no it's too far for me I live in London, same for Bristol and yet we have better transport than we did in the Wembley / Bingley hall days.

Shows need money to survive – bare fact and their only revenue is gate money and trade stand rent. As the organisers costs have risen so they have passed them on but in between time the internet has risen to a point where anyone can use it and online banking via card is perfectly accepted.

Traders have now stood back and looked carefully at this. Have you noticed how the trend is going from full all out stall to just taking say machines or a cut down version of the stand. Probably two or three variations over two or three shows whilst they work out what works for them.

Once they have figures they can then work out if it's worth doing shows any more or in a reduced capacity.

If they do make either of these decisions it than works it way back to the show organisers who then have to increase prices to afford to run the show which then spirals down to another set of traders having to make the same decision.

I'm afraid we have seen the best of the shows.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Posted by John Stevenson on 21/01/2014 20:31:26:

Any details on the Springfield show ?

**LINK**

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

> Bingley Hall in Birmingham

Having worked in Brum for nearly 18 years this confused me a bit – the only Bingley Hall I have been to was in Stafford (google tells me it was 2 May 1982!). Wikipedia tells me the Birmingham Bingley Hall was the first purpose-built exhibition hall in the UK (1850) and helpfully shows a picture of the hall demolished so it could be built! Apparently it burnt down in 1984.

As to the future of shows, what's needed is plenty of ideas for ways to make them pay for all concerned. ..

Neil

 

>edit – got Mr Bradford & Mr Bingley on the Brain!<

Edited By Stub Mandrel on 22/01/2014 13:26:53

Edited By Stub Mandrel on 22/01/2014 13:29:12

[IDPParticipant @idp]

Thinking on it cost me £50 in petrol, £10 each [there were 3 of us] entry fee to Ally Pally plus car parking charges [as the car park was full. ] By the time it's added up with the cost of a cup of tea etc, the day cost getting on for £100 without taking into account any purchases from trade stands etc.

It may be in the future that I support the smaller society organised shows [see link on RS entry above] at least that way I can have an outing in the country, maybe a good for value pub lunch, support a society and more than likeley see something I've not already seen before.

IDP

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

Tbh the ally pally show was a great disappointment. Some regular traders not present, Chronos and Hemingway immediately spring to mind but there were others missing. Other traders such as Chester and home and workshop machinery had distinctly downsized their stands. H&W have a much larger presence at sandown but I suspect this is down to pitch pricing. There also seemed to be much more free space and less club stands at AP than in previous years.

All in all, taking into account travel costs and show entry, and the general lack of show discounts, there was not really any benefit in going, I could have better spent the £30+ in costs on online purchases even taking into account any postage costs.

These shows really need to have a rethink or they will become non viable. It was notably not busy on Friday!

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Aside from state subsidised museums and some of the very small visitor attractions there aren't many days out for £30 a head these days, including the travel.

Neil

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

How far have some of you travelled, I checked out train tickets for four of us to travel from Sandy, Bedfordshire to Alexandra Palace return on Sunday and it cost us £6.00 each, getting in was dearer £9.00 but a lovely cheap day.

Martin P

[LimpetParticipant @limpet]

I went to the show on Saturday as a newbie this is my first show which I enjoyed a lot. I travelled up from Devon cost me approx. £100 in fares and entrance (not something to do every month)The another £150 on stuff!! But I have trouble understanding the logic of some of the people on here if they want good shows with lots of traders then they should attend whenever possible we've only got ourselves to blame – it's the old saying "use it or lose it – it's your choice" I shall be going again next year

[wendy jacksonParticipant @wendyjackson]

Limpet. The big fault to my mind with these shows are.for the traders that need to foot the over the top stand fees.i understand thst some pay nearly 8000 pounds or more for a stand, add on travel, hotel bills and they need to take in a lot of money.

Years back I went to shows to get ideas, see what others are doing.also traders sometimes had show offers which in a way paid for the door fee.

These days, you can get ideas from the net.there are no show discounts unless you want to buy s Chinese milling machine.the cost of fuel, makes it a new starter for many.and once you have been to a few, well it just becomes boring.michael

[LimpetParticipant @limpet]

Terry I appreciate that the traders have high costs in attending these events and I also appreciate how mundane it can get when you've been to a lot over the years – perhaps as a newbie I'm looking at it from the perspective you did several years ago. I too went for ideas and to see what others are doing. down in Devon there's very little that goes on in the way of exhibition. I know Bristol is closer but work restricts me attending during the late summer to Christmas. But surely the more people that say how disappointing things are when comparing with different times the more others will be influenced and all the quicker will the shows go, what will the next generation of model engineers do then.

[wendy jacksonParticipant @wendyjackson]

Limpet.i am in somerset, so cost of travel much the same.i have a few other hobbies which I have done for many years.i dont go to any of the shows anymore, sorry to say that they just are not the same.and the one common factor for all of them is the high costs for the traders, some poor stands, maybe a general lack of interest.

Its not for me to support the next generation of model engineers, maybe there will not be one, who knows.i know that sounds a little negative but I feel at show level its for the traders to make the running.at club level there is a lot to see and enjoy.last year I went with a few club members to swansea engineering club.what a great day out.their display of club locomotives put most national shows to shame.for me these days a visit to a club, talking to other people about their locomotives beats any national show hands down.

Unless these big shows start becoming less about money, they will kill themselves off.maybe that would be a good think.michael

[IDPParticipant @idp]

It seems to me that the average spend for attending a show is about £100. If you consider that there is easily five or so shows throughout the year then this equates to £500. That's a good deal of material or tooling, and if I'm going to sped that much, I want value for money.

Maybe what the hobby wants is just one or two really good shows running for more than an extended weekend.

IDP

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