Question about GHT’s retracting topslide drawing

[egaParticipant @ega]

I bought the kit from the late Neil Hemingway but have only recently plucked up the courage to start the build. In his Workshop Manual (1992 edition) GHT said that, apart from the gears and leadscrew which come with the kit, the parts are not difficult to make, but I think I took fright when I saw the Double Elephant size drawing! I know that one or two members have successfully completed the RTS and hope for some help with the drawing of the body as shown in the extract below:

 

Holes A to E are shown and listed in the table but two holes on the drawing appear not to be listed and I am not clear about hole F. The unlisted holes have coordinates of 1.218/.512″ and .600/1.625″; one of them may be F.

Can anyone who made the RTS throw any light on this? I am reluctant to think that GHT slipped up and appreciate that I may be misunderstanding the drawing.

Incidentally, apart from Neil Hemingway’s business being taken over on his death, it now appears to have passed to Messrs Reeves and I don’t suppose they could help at this remove.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

A lot of the Hemmingway stuff was redrawn in CAD, Reeves may be able to help with a more upto date drawing. You can see the CAD drawing here https://www.hemingwaykits.com/HK1240

Failing that what mates with the two unlisted holes?

[egaParticipant @ega]

JasonB:

Thank you for your advice and for the link which, however, seems to show only drawing 1 of 6, the GA; I will try Reeves – happily, they are still with us!

I did consider your fallback suggestion and may have to have another go at this route. I also thought about just diving in but am reluctant to start cutting metal without having a clear path to the finished product.

[John PurdyParticipant @johnpurdy78347]

I made mine about 15 years ago and looking at my drawings they appear to be different. On mine your hole .6/1.625 is listed as “G” and the other is the centre of the large .875 dia hole. see the attached drawing. Hole”F” would appear to be the one on the curved surface as shown on the drawing below at the botom left.

John

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

my drawings are the same as Johns and the RTS has been working fine for the same period, I would suggest you use the drawing John has scanned. Dont forget that the drawing keeps getting inverted and rotated this can be awkward as there are quite a few dims in a small space. Well worth the trouble though IMHO

[egaParticipant @ega]

Gentlemen:

Many thanks indeed for your help. It looks as though I shan’t have to trouble Reeves and can now start cutting metal.

My large drawing is no WE23 from MAP Ltd and appears to be identical as to content to the drawings in GHT’s book. Interesting to see how the CAD dimensioning method differs from the traditional. I was initially puzzled by the double headed arrow of the latter.

Jason pointed me to Reeves’ website where there is a photo of the finished RTS; whoever made it seems to have set the bar rather high! I shall be happy if I can get mine to work.

[John PurdyParticipant @johnpurdy78347]

Hole “F” by the way is to allow access to the eccentric bush that one of the gears run in to, using a small pin, to rotate it to adjust the backlash in the gear train. After adjustment the bush is locked with the 6BA set screw just above hole”F”. I agree with Bernard, it is well worth making, makes screw cutting so much easier and faster. One thing I have noticed on mine ( which may be my manufacture) is that the over lock on the forward motion of the slide is not sufficient and it tends to move back if bumped. The use of GHT’s slide lock mod to the top slide works to stop it from moving.

John

[egaParticipant @ega]

John Purdy:

Thanks for the further information and photo. I dowelled and locked my topslide some years ago and hope to avoid the problem you mention.

I  look forward to easier screwcutting!

 

[John PurdyParticipant @johnpurdy78347]

Another advantage is the much larger feed screw dial, now graduated in thous instead of 2 thous, with its ability to be unlocked and reset easily without fear of the the top slide moving.

John

[egaParticipant @ega]

John Purdy:

I’ve just been making hard copies of your HK images which, along with your comments, resolve my question. In fairness to GHT, I had failed to notice that on his drawing hole F is labelled as such on another view; this hole is, of course, visible in your photo plugged with a slotted screw.

Thinking about your “bump” point and the topslide lock, presumably the slide has to be free for the RTS to function? No doubt all this will become clearer to me as I progress with the build.

Good point about the size and graduations of the dial and means of locking; I can foresee also wanting to treat the cross slide to GHT’s upgrade.

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

Up until the early 1990’s I used to make these attachments for Neil. What Neil called his “Ready Made Line” Including my own Metric version I guess I have made about 20 units. If my memory serves me correctly I think Neil sold the business following the death of his wife Audrey.

I made several modifications to George’s original design, with his blessing. One modification did away with the hole F. The head of the Phos Bronze bush at this location had two slots machined in it so that a Micrometer Thimble spanner could make the adjustments. Releasing the cover just enough to insert the spanner made this adjustment easy. The retracting spring automatically makes the gap for the spanner.

The other mod did away with the Stop Plate on top of the attachment. Instead a dowel in the underside of the Lever worked in a cut-out in the Eccentric Bush below. The faces of this cut-out acting as the stops. The lever could also be used to set the eccentric bush bush position. No swarf could get in the way of the operating mechanism. This also did away with the machining under the lever and the manufacture of the stop-plate.

There was a problem I encountered when I made a batch of 6 complete Curved and painted topslides, in that the cast recess in the topslide casting needed to be extended to get the full retraction travel. This may not be a problem with the later Flat Topped Casting used on later machines. I just thought I would mention this in passing.

The 6 topslides also had a block type Gib similar to the Cross-slide.

Regards

Gray,

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

For several years Hemingway kits were sold by Hemingway Kits, based in Bridgenorth, who reproduced all the drawings on CAD, and expanded the range of kits

The CAD drawings were certainly clear.

About a year ago the business was sold to Reeves (The Worden Mk 3 kit that I made for The WaterWorks Museum was probably one of the last ones from Bridgenorth that they sold before Reeves took over)

Howard

[egaParticipant @ega]

Graham Meek:

Food for thought!

I see from an old 1995 catalogue that they were “N.S. & A. Hemingway”. I had a good many items from him, also from his successor. Among the “Ready Made” items in another catalogue was the S7 handwheel dial.

About the RTS they say: “Our own S7 lathe is fitted with this kit and other than for worm threads we now rarely engage back gear when screw cutting.” They also enthused about GHT’s retracting tool holder which I believe you have also reimagined.

Your description of your RTS modifications reminds me that on my original, undated, drawing and in GHT’s book hole F is said to be “Alternative”. I don’t suppose you wrote these modifications up in any of the magazines at the time?

My non-PXF Seven has the earlier topslide casting and I will bear in mind your point about the recess.

 

[Howard Lewis]

On Howard Lewis Said:

For several years Hemingway kits were sold by Hemingway Kits, based in Bridgenorth …

I imagine this is the same location as the home of the Severn Valley Railway – well worth a visit!

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Ega, I have sent you a pm.

[Charles LamontParticipant @charleslamont71117]

Correct. Kirk ran Hemingway Kits from his home in Bridgnorth (no ‘e’) which is also the North end of the SVR.

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

I remembered I took some photographs of the finished slide and the parts,

 

They are not very good photographs, this was early days for me when it came to Photography.

Regards

Gray,

[egaParticipant @ega]

Graham Meek:

Thanks for the photos. It does look neater without the stop plate. GHT was also one for improving the designs of others.

[ega]

On ega Said:

Graham Meek:

Food for thought!

I see from an old 1995 catalogue that they were “N.S. & A. Hemingway”. I had a good many items from him, also from his successor. Among the “Ready Made” items in another catalogue was the S7 handwheel dial.

About the RTS they say: “Our own S7 lathe is fitted with this kit and other than for worm threads we now rarely engage back gear when screw cutting.” They also enthused about GHT’s retracting tool holder which I believe you have also reimagined.

Your description of your RTS modifications reminds me that on my original, undated, drawing and in GHT’s book hole F is said to be “Alternative”. I don’t suppose you wrote these modifications up in any of the magazines at the time?

My non-PXF Seven has the earlier topslide casting and I will bear in mind your point about the recess.

 

Sorry Ega, I missed your post, shame on me.

Yes Neil Shackleton and Audrey Hemingway often visited us on their way home from seeing GHT, or one of their many trips to Guilford. On one particular visit he had George’s Senior Milling machine on a trailer, this was when George was moving house.

The reference to screwcutting was with regard to the screwcutting clutch which Neil had on his lathe. This allowed him to screwcut at near normal turning speeds. I made one for Neil and Ken Swan. The one I had made for myself was sold by Neil as I had since purchased my Emco Maximat Super 11. It took me the best part of 40 years to fit one to the Maximat. All Neil’s VDH worm threads were made using this attachment. Neil really gave this attachment some hard work and the unit never once failed him. Neil did say that this attachment saved him 4 days work when he was replacing his stock.

Unfortunately I did not start writing articles until 2011. The RT Mods was something which I had never thought about doing, and since 2022 I have given up writing altogether. Although you will see articles from me appearing now and again, these are what Editor Neil has in stock.

I did make a version of GHT’s RT Toolholder for use on my Emco Maximat Super 11, but the proximity of the chuck jaws when working close to the chuck, caused me to have a rethink.

I now use another version of GHT’s RT,

Regards

Gray,

[egaParticipant @ega]

Graham Meek:

Thanks for the photos.

I notice that your knurling tool also seems designed to save fingers from the chuck. Does it have the same sort  of range as the more conventional variety?

What would you say is the current equivalent of the Emco?

[John PurdyParticipant @johnpurdy78347]

Ega

Yes, the top slide is unlocked to use the retract feature and any time the top slide is used to put on a cut. At all other times I keep the top slide locked.

When it does move if bumped it is a positive direction, ie. the tool moves away from the work so is not a real problem, just a nuisance. One of these days I will take it apart and see if I can make the over centre lock more positive.

Shortly after making it and seeing how good the dial resetting was, I made the mod to the cross slide dial according to GHT’s words and music ( to quote LBSC). Didn’t use a Hemingway kit for this one just material I had using GHt’s workshop book and his original write ups in ME back in Nov. ’77. Bought the thrust bearings from a local supplier. Resetting the dial here is even easier and more positive than on the top slide as the lead screw itself can be locked with the small lever on the right side preventing any movement of the cross slide

John

[ega]

On ega Said:

Graham Meek:

Thanks for the photos.

I notice that your knurling tool also seems designed to save fingers from the chuck. Does it have the same sort  of range as the more conventional variety?

What would you say is the current equivalent of the Emco?

PS I have just been re-reading the 4 Tool Turret Chapter in your Projects book and now see that the knurling tool has a 0-2″ range; my reason for asking was that I could not visualise the movement of the components – no doubt John Slater could show this!

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Without wishing to drag this thread even further off-topic, I’ve just had a play with my drawings for Graham Meek’s knurling tool and I reckon that, at a stretch and assuming ¾” knurls, I could get a a smidge over 2½” diameter material in mine.  (It’s no longer in my possession so I can’t verify that by direct measurement.)

John

 

[ega]

On ega Said:

On ega Said:

Graham Meek:

Thanks for the photos.

I notice that your knurling tool also seems designed to save fingers from the chuck. Does it have the same sort  of range as the more conventional variety?

What would you say is the current equivalent of the Emco?

PS I have just been re-reading the 4 Tool Turret Chapter in your Projects book and now see that the knurling tool has a 0-2″ range; my reason for asking was that I could not visualise the movement of the components – no doubt John Slater could show this!

Hi Ega,

I am sorry to say the 3D views of the Knurling tool from John will not be possible. John died just before last Christmas. Although he and I never met we corresponded regularly for over 20 years. His passing has left a big hole in my life. He very often helped me out on projects, for ME&W as well as Home Shop Machinist. He would often send me down numerous “Rabbit Holes”, all of which added to the learning and design.

Best regards

Gray,

 

[egaParticipant @ega]

Graham Meek:

I can understand your regret at losing a long-term friend and collaborator; for years I corresponded with a fellow Willson lathe user in New Zealand and miss his wisdom.

3D views were a feature of Hemingway Kits under their last owner and I wonder whether Reeves will take the same approach to new additions to their catalogue.

[Author]

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