How much !?!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I know they have a good reputation … but

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/297505599160

MichaelG.

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

Not even close. Try tweezers at £220 + VAT!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

< gulp >

Admittedly not such a wide range of styles, but these are very nicely made

.

.

Not sure what that proves, but I think I should grab some more whilst they are available.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Listing mistakes and ebay tricks aside if you want to see something inordinately expensive for its size look at ‘pivot files’.

[Bazyle]

On Bazyle Said:

Listing mistakes and ebay tricks aside if you want to see something inordinately expensive for its size look at ‘pivot files’.

Also look at the price of a 1.5mm Albrecht drill chuck, make the 3mm one look cheap!

Ian P

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks Ian … I’m actually quite content using watchmaker’s collets

[ cost/benefit analysis ]

MichaelG.

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

This chuck is the same design and identical appearance to those sold on TEMU for fifteen quid. They are probably exactly the same, made in the same Chinese factory using the same materials but marked with a different brand.

I bought a couple of the cheap TEMU chucks and they can’t be faulted at the price I paid. I know there is still some prejudice out there against Chinese products amongst some ‘diehards’ but modern manufacturing, in the which the Chinese are the world leaders, gives us excellent products for amazing prices.

I bought a brand new 32″ smart TV for £103 incl. VAT & delivery from Ebay just to get me out of a ‘hole’ and provide some entertainment for my recently bedridden wife. TBH, I wasn’t expecting much at that price but I must say it does everything it says on the tin. Previously I had bought a new electric wheel chair for £465 which looks the same and does absolutely everything a £3k model from the mobility shop does.

I accept that there are wider ‘political’ and economic consequences because of Chinese manufacturing prowess, not least for the automotive industry, but for the time being I am very thankful that I have been able to acquire products that would otherwise have been more financially further out of reach.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Chris,

Albrecht drill chucks are not made in the same factories as TEMU products. Albrecht chucks are made under a ISO9001 quality system and each chuck is inspected and measured.
While a far eastern chuck is probably fine for the majority of hobby uses they are not the same.
On your TV and especially wheel chair are you confident that they are manufactured and tested to the required standards and safe? What battery type does the wheelchair use? if Lithium based I would be very wary.

Robert.

[JAParticipant @ja]

Looking at the eBay website it says “Last item available”. I think increasing the price when only one item is in stock is common practice. Probably the dealer, through eBay, is hoping for an emergency purchase.

JA

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

No, that is the going rate for a Albrecht drill chuck.

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

If the Ebay listing is completely legitimate. Then Rotagrip ltd. is the company selling it. And that would not be a Temu clone of the real item.

 

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

Robert, do these ridiculously expensive chucks grip tighter, run truer or wear less than a Chinese cheapo? Maybe they do but the cheap chucks I bought run true, grip well and have shown no significant wear in use. Modern manufacturing obviates the need for traditional skills and products can be made precisely anywhere the labour and energy costs are cheapest. It would be very simple to send the manufacturing data anywhere in the world to a suitable CNC machine. I can’t think that Albrecht is any different from any other company in contracting out its physical manufacturing and simply becoming a brand management outfit as so many other companies have become. I have no idea if this is the case with this particular company but I wouldn’t be surprised.

In the 1990’s I visited a local engineering works that was making automotive parts. At the end of the line were three crates, one marked for the supposed OEM brand, one marked for a generic parts supplier and another marked for Del Boy’s car spares (not really, but you get what I mean). The components came off exactly the same line, used the same materials and were subject to exactly the same inspection procedures. It really opened my eyes and I haven’t been impressed by ‘name’ brands ever since.

If something does what it’s supposed to do for a goodly amount of time, then its good enough for me because price is no longer an indication of quality as it almost always used to be. You are mostly paying for a ‘name, the advertising and a fancy marketing strategy, IMO.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Quite normal for Third Party parts to be made exactly the same as genuine O E M parts.

I have seen two, mirror image lines making a filter. One line packed in “Genuine manufacturer Spare” boxes, the other in aftermarket boxes.

In the same factory I saw other different units painted in different colours, for various “Genuine” spare parts, for our company, as well as our custoners!

Another supplier branded their product as ours; probably doing the same for others as well.

Howard

[Mick BaileyParticipant @mickbailey28509]

I did some work in a foundry that produced continuously cast bronze bars and on my first day got a tour. The stock area had a holding pen stacked with bars of different sizes and I was told it was off-limits because it was all military contract supply. When I asked about the production differences (thinking the quality may have been higher) my guide said it all came off the same machinery to the same spec and the only difference was the military stuff had contract and traceability numbers stamped in the end. “And it’s about twenty times the price”

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Loads of Chinese factories produce to ISO standards. I used to go there to inspect them. Even 20 years ago we had pushed them into using all the western standards if they wanted to supply to us. They save money with cheap land for the building, cheap loans, cheap labour, 24/7 working, few holidays etc. We inspected the incoming goods to keep them on their toes.
A good example of variable quality  is electrical resistors. All say 10k ohm resistors come off the same line and are tested. Those withing 2% are labelled as such, then 5%, then 10% etc. People assume a 10% resistor is spread evenly over the +/- 10 % range but really no, it is within 10% but definitely outside the middle +/- 5%.
When UK factories still made stuff they made 50k plastic grollybongs until the die was worn out, as far as the UK quality expected. The die was scrapped. But then they found they could sell the die to the East instead so another 50k units were made, definitely lower quality. Initially these poor items stayed in the Eastern domestic market but then Arthur D started importing the and undercutting the UK OEM and wiping them out.
This still happens but the good 50k and the next 150k are now all made in the East. You can get the good ones if your importer bothers to do proper quality control and the rest appear on ebay.

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

I’ve become a bit of a drill chuck officianado after trying dozens of them.

Albrecht chucks are made in Germany and are widely considered to be among the best available.

Personally I think they are a bit of a rip off, don’t get me wrong, they are good, but my Spanish made “Accupro” super precision chuck is available at less than half the price and comes with a lower runout guarantee. It’s buttery smooth and every bit as well made.

Porta (Italia), Bison (Polish) and Vertex (Taiwanese) also make some great chucks at a fraction of the price of Albrecht.

Jacobs of course are good but I feel like they are no longer good value for money after shifting production overseas.

Rohm are disappointing in my opinion. They tend to be about the same price as Accupro or Bison but they aren’t as well made and usually less accurate.

[Chris Crew]

On Chris Crew Said:

Robert, do these ridiculously expensive chucks grip tighter, run truer or wear less than a Chinese cheapo? Maybe they do but the cheap chucks I bought run true, grip well and have shown no significant wear in use. Modern manufacturing obviates the need for traditional skills and products can be made precisely anywhere the labour and energy costs are cheapest. It would be very simple to send the manufacturing data anywhere in the world to a suitable CNC machine. I can’t think that Albrecht is any different from any other company in contracting out its physical manufacturing and simply becoming a brand management outfit as so many other companies have become. I have no idea if this is the case with this particular company but I wouldn’t be surprised.

In the 1990’s I visited a local engineering works that was making automotive parts. At the end of the line were three crates, one marked for the supposed OEM brand, one marked for a generic parts supplier and another marked for Del Boy’s car spares (not really, but you get what I mean). The components came off exactly the same line, used the same materials and were subject to exactly the same inspection procedures. It really opened my eyes and I haven’t been impressed by ‘name’ brands ever since.

If something does what it’s supposed to do for a goodly amount of time, then its good enough for me because price is no longer an indication of quality as it almost always used to be. You are mostly paying for a ‘name, the advertising and a fancy marketing strategy, IMO.

Yes they do. To see the difference you need to be using them in a machine of similar precision.

While I don’t doubt what you were told on the car parts you have to be careful about terminology. OEM means the car maker to most people bur in the industry it normally means t the component maker. So Bosch for example may make a part that is marked for Ford and a similar part marked Bosch (or Fiat etc) is likely to be of the same quality. The same “Ford” part manufactured by say Magneti Marelli would be the same. A part made in China for ACME Auto spares might be but might not. Note that even apparently identical parts by the same manufacturer can be made to different standards in terms of tolerances, surface finish / treatment etc. A 3rd party part may actually be better than the OEM item.
As a driver of odd cars over the years I got quite good at identifying the alternative part when the car manufacturers part was not available or expensive.

More recently I had a Fiat Croma (no not the 20th century one) which was from when GM were involved.  Basically the floorpan and running gear was the same as the Vauxhall Vectra C and SAAB 9-5.  The Fiat had a weak spot in the transmission. The front drive shafts are different lengths and the inboard CV joint on the longer shaft was prone to failure. It was a “tulip” cup and spider joint. The fix was to dump the Fiat shaft and fit the one from a Vectra. This had a different joint further outboard. The bearing carrier was also further out but the gear box was already drilled and tapped for the Vauxhall mount.

EDIT: Yes I have both genuine Albrecht and cheap copies in my workshop and can tell the difference. The “cheap” ones (from ARC Eurotrade) are more than good enough for my needs but not the same.

Robert.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I got hold of a NOS 10mm Albrecht out of a box of tools donated to the museum and fitted a MT2 arbor to it. None of us could get on with it, so it got sold and the proceeds bought a couple of keyed Jacobs, also NOS, a 1/4″ and a 1/2″ which get used regularly. Some people love them. I think it went for about £45

 

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

I have to agree with some. I’ve got an Albrecht , three Taiwanese produced integral shank keyless that do compare quite well to the German Albrecht’s for grip and run out. But they weren’t exactly cheap, and each was a little over half the price of the Albrecht’s. The one Rohm I bought is at best ok, and definitely not the highest precision. But I believe they produce a couple of different levels of quality and accuracy for there chucks. Mine I’m sure was made by Rohm, since I bought it from a reputable tool supplier. But I’ve definitely seen some counterfeit Rohm chucks as well.

I’ve also learned the hard way that any chuck that allows a drill shank to slip, I can’t afford to own at any price. The mid priced or better chucks are to me worth what they cost. If you can find a cheap chuck that does perform adequately, then you should consider yourself very fortunate.

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

To my mind, an oddity of the Rotagrip eBay listings is that while the overall dimensions of the chucks are quoted in metric, the run-out accuracy is in imperial units. For the price, an error of .003″ tir seems on the large side.

[Clive Brown 1]

On Clive Brown 1 Said:

[…]  For the price, an error of .003″ tir seems on the large side.

That was actually what prompted me to start this ‘Topic’ Clive

… together with the apparently rather rough external finish.

MichaelG.

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

Ouch! Those prices are frightening! And so is inflation. I’ve just dug out a Rotagrip catalogue from 2003. Albrecht 1 – 13 mm, GBP 102.70; Jacobs Plain bearing, key-type (No 34, I think), 0 -13 mm, GBP 27.03; Jacobs keyless (Albrecht-like), 1 – 13 mm, GBP 33.77. So the price differential has ‘always’ been impressive. Here, in expensive NZ, Chinese keyless chucks of actually quite decent quality, can be had for about GBP 35. What does the future hold, I wonder?

[gerry maddenParticipant @gerrymadden53711]

It was the runout figure in the ebay ad. that I spotted too! Must be a cut and paste error in this case which I have seen many times when searching for things.

As regards ‘quality’ of parts from a production line, it’s certainly not unusual in some parts of the bearing industry to slightly open the ‘acceptance limits’ for the aftermarket items and pop the ones that don’t meet the OEM specs in the aftermarket box. The parts will look identical of course, but aftermarket parts are likely to be poorer in some subtle respects than the ones in the OEM box.  Such practices have been going on since the term ‘commercial’ was invented.

Gerry

[Peter Cook 6]

On Peter Cook 6 Said:

Not even close. Try tweezers at £220 + VAT!

For info, Peter

.

 

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They arrived today, and are certainly adequate for my needs

I ordered 3 of each of these “colours” … but would have got better value by ordering only the 2-packs

MichaelG.

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

Thanks for the update Michael, interesting price differentials! However I suspect none of them will be any better in my fingers at hanging on to those sub millimetre taper pins which escape with remarkable alacrity and disappear forever into the maw of the workshop gremlins.

That said I did spot one on the floor 3mm long and 0.4mm in diameter that had done a runner a couple of days earlier.

[Author]

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