problem with a warco 250 v lathe electrics

problem with a warco 250 v lathe electrics

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  • #819876
    joner 1
    Participant
      @joner-1

      hi all new hear just got a werco 250 v lathe it worked if i held the contactor button in let it go it stopped . got a new one and a start stop switch still the same and the neon light on switch is not lit also . any help would be great full .

      #819883
      Bazyle
      Participant
        @bazyle

        Check all the interlock switches on the covers. Check there is 12v or 24v whatever it uses getting to these switches in case the power supply has failed. Also check f it works any better set to reverse.

        #819887
        Bazyle
        Participant
          @bazyle

          Just remembered we had something the other day similar but not sure which lathe. There may be a fuse on the circuit board.

          #819903
          JasonB
          Moderator
            @jasonb

            Can you post a photo of what you originally had and what you have now. You say you have now got a contactor button AND a stop/start. I’m assuming it is new to you but not a new machine from Warco.

            These lathes tend to have a NVR switch – No Volt Relese unit. Usually if you have to hold down the green start button that indicated that the coil inside has gone and is not holding the switch on. Direct replacements should be available and you should not need two separate items..

            #819970
            joner 1
            Participant
              @joner-1

              HI jason thank you for replying , new to this actually this is the first forum I have had a reply on . U m basicly if I hold the green button in the lathe works  take my finger of it stops . Everything else works along as I keep my finger on the green button . O the new green and red button does not light up .

              #819973
              JasonB
              Moderator
                @jasonb

                It does sound very much like a faulty NVR switch. I had to replace mine (WM280) earlier this year after 17yrs service. It started out by switching off while making a cut then eventually the green button would not hold in. Taking it apart showed overheating coil that had melted some of the surroundings and softened the springs.

                If you look at the sides or back of the old one it should have a part number, put that into google and ebay and you should find a direct replacement so the wires you have will all have somewhere to go.

                nvr

                As far as I am aware the old ones did not light up, if your new one has an indicator light then that may need sone different wiring which could be complicating the issue.

                #819977
                joner 1
                Participant
                  @joner-1

                  Hi thank you for the reply um s the coil what is on the circuit board behind the variable speed dial.  ..?

                  #819979
                  JasonB
                  Moderator
                    @jasonb

                    No there is a coil within the NVR switch that when you push the green button in and allow the current to flow created a nmagnetic field which then holds the green button down when you take your finger of th ebutton. Sound slike your sis not being held down and that is why the motor stops when you take your finger off the button.

                    Interlocks & fuse sound OK as the motor would not even start if they where not operating correctly.

                    #819991
                    SillyOldDuffer
                    Moderator
                      @sillyoldduffer

                      A couple of circuit diagrams may help.

                      1) From the manual.  I’ve marked the current flow and components to be checked in red.  Note these may not exactly match your lathe – they vary a bit,

                      w250circuit

                      Simplified:

                      w250safety

                      The fuse must be OK because the lathe runs when the NVR is pressed.

                      Pressing the NVR connects power to a relay inside the switch via the e-stop, chuck guard, gear cover interlocks and the Forward Reverse switch,

                      Not unusual for the NVR switch to fail, faulty relay coil or contacts.  Replace it, (already done)

                      Make sure the e-stop is released.  They usually lock when pressed, and are reactivated by turning the mushroom.  It has arrows on top.

                      The lathe won’t operate if the gear cover is off.  Not a switch in the ordinary sense.  A blade enters a slot,

                      I had trouble with my chuck guard switch.  Came loose and twisted so that moving the cover didn’t operate the switch.  Fixed by putting the switch back in place and re tightening.

                      Check all the wires are connected; they can vibrate loose.

                      If that doesn’t work, buy a multimeter and trace the circuit continuity end to end.  The lathe won’t start unless all the safety switches are close open, or if a wire isn’t connected.  The symptoms are as described.

                      It will be easy enough to fix once the fault is identified.  Judging by the lack of complaints, unlikely to be the F/R switch.

                      Dave

                       

                       

                       

                       

                       

                      #820006
                      joner 1
                      Participant
                        @joner-1

                        HI THANK YOU silly ill check your diagram tomorrow and let you know many thanks .

                        #820021
                        JasonB
                        Moderator
                          @jasonb

                          As I said if the lathe runs when you hold the buttom down then the interlocks and fuse should not be at fault otherwise there would be no connection between live and Neurtal in SOD’s second diagram.

                          A photo would help as you may have a brushed DC version with the e-stop integral with the NVR or the later inverter ones which has a separate e-stop.

                          #820023
                          Robert Atkinson 2
                          Participant
                            @robertatkinson2

                            SOD.
                            In your simplified sketch you have two normally open contacts in parallel in the NVR. I think one (the stop) should be normally closed and in series with the coil.

                            Robert.

                            #820042
                            noel shelley
                            Participant
                              @noelshelley55608

                              It all depends on the circuit being used. One arrangement would indicate The coil is working or nothing would work, it is the holding circuit that is at fault. In another and using Daves diagram then the coil or it’s circuit is at fault. As has been said if the E stop has been operated then it will need to be reset. Since the lathe runs I doubt a fuse – unless it is in the switching circuit. Check ALL safety interlocks for continuity and that the coil has not failed.

                              If you have changed the NVR/ contactor is it the same as the one you took out ?

                              Bear in mind that you are dealing with mains 240v and if you are not competent to do the job seek help. Good luck. Noel.

                              #820052
                              SillyOldDuffer
                              Moderator
                                @sillyoldduffer

                                May not matter much, because the NVR has already been replaced, and a new one is unlikely to be faulty.  We hope!   So the exactly  how the relay is wired to latch power-on is irrelevant to Joner1.

                                As fitting a new NVR didn’t help, the issue is more likely to be in the chain of safety switches, which is much the same in this family of lathes whether fitted with DC Motors or 3-phase/VFD.

                                Would be useful for Robert to post the alternative NVR circuit though.

                                Since the lathe runs when the NVR is held down manually, we know the fuse, contactor, motor and electronic speed controller are all OK.  So the fault is most likely in the easy to fix switches and wiring, not the costly parts.

                                Be nice if Joner found the problem was simply the e-stop locked down, waiting to be manually released:  still catches me out occasionally and I have a bad habit of assuming any fault must be the worst possible.   Have to stop myself turning on a soldering iron and replacing all the mosfets!  Last time my lathe wouldn’t start, I did my ‘don’t assume anything’ routine and found it was switched off at the workbench.   As the workshop has a master-switch I never turn-off at the bench… Except I must have, blush.

                                Ta

                                Dave

                                #820062
                                JasonB
                                Moderator
                                  @jasonb

                                  At the moment we don’t know if it is a like for like new NVR so wiring may be different.

                                  My 280 won’t do a thing if interlocks are open which is how they should work, same with a separate e-stops on the mills so likely they are OK.

                                  #820073
                                  Robert Atkinson 2
                                  Participant
                                    @robertatkinson2

                                    Sorry Dave, Day job get in the way 🙂
                                    NVR circuit
                                    NVR

                                    #820075
                                    Robert Atkinson 2
                                    Participant
                                      @robertatkinson2

                                      We don’t know if the new switch is correct type or if it is wired correctly. Need photos of old and new.

                                      #820273
                                      joner 1
                                      Participant
                                        @joner-1

                                        20251012_135717

                                        #820275
                                        joner 1
                                        Participant
                                          @joner-1

                                          Hi I can’t seem to upload the picture of the old switch but they are different.the One in the picture is New the old one has no clear sides on it . Machine is 2017 if this helps got to slitly different diagrams for electrics 😕

                                          #820277
                                          JasonB
                                          Moderator
                                            @jasonb

                                            Is that an exact replacement for what was there?

                                            Make sure you have the latching version of the switch not momentary as a quick google suggests you can get them in either option.

                                            #820279
                                            Robert Atkinson 2
                                            Participant
                                              @robertatkinson2

                                              EDIT: I need to look again.

                                              The lathe has a contactor so does not need a magnetically held start-stop. Need to find contactor details

                                              I have to start the day job now.

                                              Robert.

                                              #820281
                                              JasonB
                                              Moderator
                                                @jasonb

                                                It also shows a NVR switch on the wiring diagram that Dave posted, assuming OP has same model.

                                                nvr1

                                                Probably this style but depending on year and motor type they can vary, hence why I asked early on for images and if brushed or inverter. Can’t really go by a user manual as some can show 3 different switches in the same manual for the one machine!

                                                nvr2

                                                #820296
                                                noel shelley
                                                Participant
                                                  @noelshelley55608

                                                  The NVR that we all know and love is just a relay, a NO switch and NC switch with added switches for various safety functions then there may be an overload device. All quite simple if you understand such things but if not and then you replace it with a different unit the fun starts ! Has the NC switch failed , or the holding circuit contact gone U/S. If it has an illuminated button is there a neutral missing ? It will be a simple fault when it’s found.

                                                  Where is the OP, is any one near him ?  Noel.

                                                  #820316
                                                  Robert Atkinson 2
                                                  Participant
                                                    @robertatkinson2

                                                    On a break. There are two possibilites I can see that match what we have been told and can see in picture:

                                                    1/ The design requires a magnetically held “Start” switch and the replacement is not.
                                                    2/ The holding contact on the contactor is faulty

                                                    Trouble I have is I can’t see any live feed TO the Start / Stop switch Assembly on the schematic with the unit OFF. This is needed to energise the contactor.
                                                    BUT the motor runs when button pushed so there must be a feed. Either the schematic is wrong or the contactor is a bit odd. Hence my earlier comment on needing contactor details.
                                                    All this assumes that the orginal fault is a failed switch or contactor and not a loose connection.

                                                    Details / photos of orginal switch would help a lot.

                                                    Robert.

                                                    #820366
                                                    joner 1
                                                    Participant
                                                      @joner-1

                                                      HI All it as in the forum site keeps saying the pic file is to big yet I took the pic one after the other. ill keep trying to post the old switch. But in the mean time I spoke  to werco seem to be trying to help a bit ??

                                                      They said that this is the new type replacement switch ,I asked does it need to be wired different or the same.

                                                      Later on werco called me back and suggested to wire the switch the other way round ? so I did the lathe runs after I twisted the stop button out and I never pressed any buttons . but I had to hold the red button in to stop the lathe .

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