Threads on milling cutters

Threads on milling cutters

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  • #20053
    Martin Dowing
    Participant
      @martindowing58466
      #511597
      Martin Dowing
      Participant
        @martindowing58466

        Some milling cutters have thread on their shanks which is meant for special holder.

        I need to extend such 6mm cutter to make 5 inch long mill suitable for drilling screw socket in awkward place.

        Its threaded part of shank has diameter 5.65mm and the thread is 20 TPI,

        So it is not a standard thread I am used to.

        I want to drill and thread extension bar and then drill again and ream to 6mm, so only bottom of hole is threaded. This should prevent mill rotation during drilling this socket.

        Which tap is best to use?

        Will 1/4" Whitworth 55*/20TPI tap do or are there some special taps for this purpose?

        #511599
        JasonB
        Moderator
          @jasonb

          Specials as far as I know. The older 1/4 x 20 Whit of imperial cutters as carried over to metric but they only kept the pitch so your thread is M6 x 20tpi or M6 x 1.27 in new money

          Probably easier to get a 6mm FC-3 cutter and make a simple extension that has a grub screw to bear on the flat.

          Or if "screw sockets" are counterbores for cap heads then a piloted counterbore would be the best bet as an extended milling cutter may jump about a bit..

          #511601
          Anonymous

            The threads on cutters intended for Clarkson style holders are Whitworth form and 20 tpi, irrespective of whether the cutter is imperial or metric. I was under the impression that the shanks of such cutters were of a limited range of sizes. My smallest holders are 1/4" and 6mm and have 1/4" and 6mm by 20 tpi threads respectively.

            I'm not aware of special taps for any of these threads (other than 1/4" BSW) and 5.65mm seems non-standard. Not much help I'm afraid. sad

            Andrew

            #511603
            IanT
            Participant
              @iant

              Would an ER11 or ER16 straight shank collet chuck fit into the available space Martin?

              I have ER16 collet shanks (that I hold in an ER32 chuck) that can be used to provide extra reach when required.

              Regards,

              IanT

              #511605
              Martin Dowing
              Participant
                @martindowing58466
                Posted by JasonB on 04/12/2020 13:06:07:

                Specials as far as I know. The older 1/4 x 20 Whit of imperial cutters as carried over to metric but they only kept the pitch so your thread is M6 x 20tpi or M6 x 1.27 in new money

                Probably easier to get a 6mm FC-3 cutter and make a simple extension that has a grub screw to bear on the flat.

                Or if "screw sockets" are counterbores for cap heads then a piloted counterbore would be the best bet as an extended milling cutter may jump about a bit..

                The extension bar has to be of 8mm diameter due to particular awkwardness of place to be drilled, so the grub screw is out of question. It will be made out of 8mm h6 bar for linear bearings, hardened to depth about 0.7mm.

                Regarding counterbore – have to find if suitable size (4/6mm) is available.

                Another idea – just make a reamed hole 6mm @ h6 and glue in shank of the mill with metal retainer.

                Apply coolant during milling.

                Edited By Martin Dowing on 04/12/2020 13:37:57

                #511607
                DC31k
                Participant
                  @dc31k

                  Drill extension bar 6mm. Loctite. Let it cure. Use it.

                  #511608
                  John Haine
                  Participant
                    @johnhaine32865

                    Just drill and if possible ream the extension for a close fit on the shank and then use Loctite to fix it. If you need to get it apart just boil hard in water for a few minutes, of gently heat with a blowtorch.

                    As Jason implies, good luck trying to drill a counterbore with an unsupported milling cutter.

                    #511610
                    Martin Dowing
                    Participant
                      @martindowing58466

                      @DC31k & John Haine,

                      Thanks,

                      Just got the same idea while you was writing your posts.

                      Hence my edit above.

                      It should work.

                      I can just start initial 1mm with 6mm drill, then finish job with a mill.

                      #511615
                      Rob McSweeney
                      Participant
                        @robmcsweeney81205

                        Some of the older textbooks describe grinding a drill bit with a flat end as a "bottoming drill".

                        Could be worth trying with a long series drill, unless you need carbide for the metal you are working with.

                        #511617
                        Martin Dowing
                        Participant
                          @martindowing58466
                          Posted by Rob McSweeney on 04/12/2020 14:10:30:

                          Some of the older textbooks describe grinding a drill bit with a flat end as a "bottoming drill".

                          Could be worth trying with a long series drill, unless you need carbide for the metal you are working with.

                          45HRc, so HSS-Co coated with TiCN will do. Normal HSS also works but getting blunt fast.

                          Don't want to extend carbide mill as some loss of rigidity may result in damaging it.

                          #511618
                          John Haine
                          Participant
                            @johnhaine32865

                            If you are counterboring, it doesn't have to be flat bottomed, you could just use an ordinary drill?

                            #511619
                            Martin Dowing
                            Participant
                              @martindowing58466
                              Posted by John Haine on 04/12/2020 14:18:08:

                              If you are counterboring, it doesn't have to be flat bottomed, you could just use an ordinary drill?

                              If worst come to worst I may have to settle with that.

                              #511621
                              old mart
                              Participant
                                @oldmart

                                Although the thread pitch on all the threaded cutters is 20tpi, the size of the thread is the cutter shank size. That 6mm cutter will have a 6mm X 20tpi thread. I very much doubt if the taps would be available easily. All of the threaded shank cutters up to 16mm have the 20tpi thread, I cannot say whether the larger ones have the same pitch as I do not have any to check.

                                I would Loctite the 6mm into an extention to do the milling. Make the extention as large diameter as possible for stiffness and take light cuts.

                                #511624
                                Martin Dowing
                                Participant
                                  @martindowing58466

                                  @old mart,

                                  Mill shank is 6mm but threaded part is 5.65mm @ 20 TPI

                                  Have been measured.

                                  It will be used for counterboring, not for regular milling.

                                  #511627
                                  Anonymous
                                    Posted by old mart on 04/12/2020 14:50:06:

                                    …….I cannot say whether the larger ones have the same pitch as I do not have any to check.

                                    Yes, they are. I've just double checked 25mm/1" to 50mm cutters and they're all 20 tpi Whitworth.

                                    Andrew

                                    #511628
                                    Tony Pratt 1
                                    Participant
                                      @tonypratt1
                                      Posted by Martin Dowing on 04/12/2020 14:54:44:

                                      @old mart,

                                      Mill shank is 6mm but threaded part is 5.65mm @ 20 TPI

                                      Have been measured.

                                      It will be used for counterboring, not for regular milling.

                                      So well undersized 6 mm?

                                      Tony

                                      #511630
                                      JasonB
                                      Moderator
                                        @jasonb

                                        Just measured a 6mm shank Dormer and that's a similar 5.65mm over the crests of the threads.

                                        1/4" shank Dormer is also well under at 0.236" over the threads

                                        I see that the likes of Tracy do M6 x 1.25mm taps which would be close to the1.27mm cutter pitch and if as slack as they measure the difference in angles may not be a problem over a short length of thread

                                        #511634
                                        old mart
                                        Participant
                                          @oldmart

                                          Measuring threads usually gives smaller than nominal results.

                                          #511642
                                          DC31k
                                          Participant
                                            @dc31k

                                            It is worth reading the datasheet for the proposed 'glue' before you begin.

                                            To work best, it needs some clearance and surface roughness to give a film thickness and a good bond. Hence a reamed hole might not be the best and a rub of the cutter shank with a coarse diamond stone will not harm anything.

                                            #511644
                                            Phil P
                                            Participant
                                              @philp

                                              Why not use a long series drill for most of the hole depth, then finish it with a D bit which can easily be made.

                                              Phil

                                              #511657
                                              Martin Dowing
                                              Participant
                                                @martindowing58466
                                                Posted by Phil P on 04/12/2020 16:06:52:

                                                Why not use a long series drill for most of the hole depth, then finish it with a D bit which can easily be made.

                                                Phil

                                                Chinese are selling 6 mm carbide mills with 150 mm long shank rated for 45HRc for 12 queeds including p&p so they are essentially given for free.

                                                Easy enough to order via Aliexpress.

                                                But you have to wait 2-3 weeks before one arrives.

                                                #512685
                                                Martin Dowing
                                                Participant
                                                  @martindowing58466

                                                  Hi,

                                                  So I have done these counterbores for screws.

                                                  130 mm long 8mm diameter surface hardened bar was drilled & reamed to H7 tolerance, 6mm Chinese solid carbide mill was glued in with Loctite 638.

                                                  Next day it was fitted in the collet and counterbore drilled directly in my part (45 HRC).

                                                  There was already predrilled 4mm hole there and center was fould with aid of straight and ground 4mm bar in usual way.

                                                  Mill was not tending to wander much so only slight taper resulted (6.2mm on the top and 6.1mm on the bottom of counterbore.

                                                  But for this application it is OK.

                                                  #512716
                                                  old mart
                                                  Participant
                                                    @oldmart

                                                    For tight tolerances, it is useful to know that a slot drill, or endmill will not produce a perfectly square counterbore. This is because the end cutting edges are not square to the tools axis. The counterbore will be slightly deeper at the outer diameter than the inner. This probably does not matter if a screw is to be fitted in the counterbore.

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