Seems strange that they are willing to ship 'other parts' but not a machine! Has anyone asked them for a machine to be broken down and shipped? That would seem to get around that problem.

However I am sure you will not be disappointed in the Wabeco, Looks like your getting the genuine item rather than a Chinacom clone.

I don't see why Arc should not ship overseas if the buyer really wanted to. I bought my lathe and milling machine from Warco and had them delivered all the way to Malta. Their shipping quote was too high so I arranged for shipping myself through a local shipping groupage company which specialises in bulky goods. I'm sure you could do the same if you waive them off responsability for anything happening during transportation.

I think Arc are more worried about aftersales, and I would understand that.

Hi Mark,

Here is what we said in our email to you:

———————————–

' Unfortunately, after speaking with our freight providers, we are not able to deliver machines to Switzerland.

We are able to consider orders for machine accessories and tooling.

Please accept our apologies that we have been unable to assist you on this occasion.'

——————————–

ARC failed to elaborate on 'after speaking with our freight providers'…. so here are some more details..

We do not ship machines regularly to Switzerland, so we invited two quotes. One declined, and one quoted GB£450.00 + GB£60.00 for processing through Swiss customs. These quotes for Switzerland are excluding VAT. Also, there would have been local import duty/taxes (whatever they may be) to be paid by you on entry into Switzerland, as Switzerland is not part of EU for 'free circulation' of goods. We queried this quote as it seems expensive, and were told – it is correct.

Keeping this in mind, the matter was brought to my attention. I felt that it was too expensive. Plus, based on past experience of things going 'pair shaped' specifically for machine shipments to Switzerland:

• certain issues with Swiss customs delays due to customers understanding/mis-understaning/expectations of Swiss customs procedures
• transit damage to certain smaller machines which were sent through premium carriers such as TNT/Fedex, specifically to Switzerland
• Last machine shipment was held up by Swiss customs for two weeks without any good reason

For ARC, the above problems are unique to Switzerland. We do not have the same problems to any other EU destinations, including Romania, Norway and Sweden – destinations to which we ship these and other machines – big or small, regularly.

For Switzerland, we have to check what the situation is, at the time of enquiry. Based on all of the above, I decided to decline your order, so you got the email as you did. Perhaps the sender of the email from ARC should have clarified with more detail, but chances are that either way, you would have been unhappy with the response.

As you say, life is too short. Apologies once again for the inconvenience. I hope you enjoy your new purchase of WABECO.

Ketan at ARC.

Mark,

As you are in Switzerland have you looked for an Aciera F2 or F3 mill? Or perhaps a Luthy mill? I would have thought you are in the right place to obtain, albeit second hand, probably one of the finest small universal mills that has ever been made!

[This posting has been removed]

Breaking down a machine option for smaller machines has been tried for Switzerland, but they still get damaged.

Regarding the comments in your second paragraph, how do you know if Wabeco is a 'genuine' item and/or SX2.7 a clone, or if it is any better or worse than what Mark is considering to buy?. If you don't have anything useful to say, please avoid making prejudicial comments. I don't think that you or your comments are funny.

Ketan at ARC.

Ketan,

I do seem to have hit a raw nerve with you here. My comments were on the basis that these mills (Wabeco and Sieg) are basically both clones of the Emco FB2 mill. As the Emco business has now fractured into disparate groups and that Pro Machine are the agents for Emco as well as Wabeco it follows that the later has a direct lineage from the original Emco FB2. The Sieg is, as we all know, a Chinese version.

Yes, I make my comments, as indeed we all do on this forum, from a position of prejudice because that is how we form opinions. Do not be blind to your own prejudice though as you make your comments from the position of having a business directly involved with the sale of the Sieg machine. I fully respect your position and understand that you are a very successful dealer with an excellent reputation in the marketplace. You have undoubtedly had dealings with many factories in China as revealed in past discussions and know the problems of the 'cultural' divide in business procedure between the 'West' and China.

I for my part lived for 9 years in China (2006 to 2015) working for a JV (Joint Venture) UK/Chinese company in the role of assisting in localisation of product into their market. So I do know quite a bit about the machinations of Chinese businesses and the drive they apply to cost cutting at the expense of perceived quality and longevity of the product. It was deemed essential to have engineers on the ground in China to prevent backsliding on quality of the product in all aspects of materials, processes and assembly.

I respect also that the current world political situation 'viz a viz' China is also bringing into focus the reliance on China as a manufacturing area where people are increasingly concerned about the impact this may have for the future. I suspect that some of your ire with my opinions is therefore your inevitable concern this may have on your business where people talk about a boycott of Chinese goods.

If I have offended you I unreservedly apologise – it was not my intention to directly attack you, purely, I stated opinions in a free forum which I do not think merited your vitriolic response. Let us put this behind us and enjoy the hobby we all love so much.

Regards, Martin

No problem Martin. Happy to put it to bed.

Ketan at ARC.