Warco GH1330 question.

[cejm78Participant @cejm78]

I am in the process of buying a nearly new Warco GH1330, running on 3 phase (440v).

The supply to my garage is only 240v single phase so a vfd will have to ge installed. The cost of upgrading our electricity supply to 3 phase is astronomical, so not an option.

I have spoken to a local company who supplies vfd’s etc and to properly advise me they need some information.

Would anybody with a Warco GH1330 (440v) be able to provide me with the following?

-The power rating of the motor.

-An electrical schematic of the lathe.

Thank you very much in advance.

[howardbParticipant @howardb]

The UK standard for 3 phase is 400 volts – 4 wire, three phases plus neutral and a separate earth

But –

“Depending on the voltage sensitivity of the product and the variance from nominal of the actual supplied voltage, it may not be advisable to use a 380V AC specific device in the UK or a 415V AC specific device in Mainland Europe etc. For instance a 415V AC supply can rise to as high as 439.9V AC and still be within tolerance, but the maximum assured rated voltage for a 380V AC product is only 418V AC. A 380V AC supply can drop as low as 357.2V AC within tolerance but the minimum assured voltage for correct performance of a 415V AC product is 373.5V AC. It may work perfectly well either way but it could be, technically, outside the specification of the equipment with obvious implications. A 400V AC product must be compatible with all voltages across this range.

If a product is to be used in the UK a 415V AC rated device is ideal but either 415V AC or 400V AC products can be used with confidence”

https://www.se.com/uk/en/faqs/FA163890/

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Talk to Warco, Transwave, and Drives Direct (I think it was them who used to advertise in ME). They will have provided dozens of converters for these so will know better what works than a general company who will charge you like a commercial company.

[cejm78Participant @cejm78]

The company (Inverterdrive.com) has come highly recommended as they supplied a vfd and wiring for various Warco machines.

One of their staff is very familiar with Warco machines and goes out of his way to help you. So I m happy with their credentials.

However, the guy that I was recommended only works the latter half of the week. And I could do with a rough price before buying the actual lathe.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Warco’s website says 1.5kW.

Price is tricky,  an industrial grade VFD with filters and IP up to £800, maybe more.   Ebay cheapy can be had for under £200, more delicate, not waterproof, no filters etc.

Fitting extra, and can be quite expensive, depending on what needs doing.

I think you need to talk to the expert to see what he recommends and why.   Going DIY means you can do it for less money, and cheaper units usually work OK within limits.  In contrast professional installers like to do things properly, installing a robust unit meeting EMI and safety requirements, that won’t breakdown after a few years.

But the customer pays, when a cheaper model might be “good enough”.   Problem is the customer may not know what good enough is.   For example, if you don’t fit filters, the VFD will spray radio frequency interference, which might annoy the neighbours.  Worst case, Ofcom can seize the equipment, i.e. hold as evidence until a court decides what to do with it, if it interferes with a primary service.     Unlikely that you would interfere that badly, or that the authority would be heavy handed, but it might happen.

Private individuals can save money by taking risks that a professional would avoid. So have a conversation with him:  if he comes in with a high quote, ask if there’s a way he can reduce cost by compromising.   Reactions vary: I’ve met guys who love helping, and others who walk away because cost cutting is too much trouble.

Dave

 

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

You need the high voltage VFD most are only 230v.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Add Newton tesla to thd list of suppliers, I’ve had 4 VFDs from them, no problem, helpful advice

[Dave Halford]

On Dave Halford Said:

You need the high voltage VFD most are only 230v.

Yes indeed.  And look carefully before buying!  Most high-voltage VFDs are 400V 3-phase input, and don’t convert 230v single-phase mains to high-voltage 400V 3-phase, which is what this machine needs.

Mains to low-voltage 3-phase VFDs are very common, prices low because they sell so many. Mains to high-voltage 3-phase VFDs are thin on the ground.  Used to be very expensive, but prices have dropped over the years.  Many web sellers don’t make them easy to find in their listings, a professional knows what’s available.

Another reason a beginner might pay an expert.  Most VFDs are designed to run one and only one single-speed motor.  Machines with two or more motors, maybe 2 speed plus a coolant pump and machine lamp, need a more sophisticated VFD.

Amateurs do get away with fitting ordinary VFDs to electrically complicated machines but it’s a gamble.  Watch out for over-optimistic feedback.  Home installers are prone to say “I did it and it’s fine”, and that’s insufficient.  What’s needed is the failure rate across a large sample:  how many installations per thousand didn’t work.  Professionals are more likely to know than ordinary folk.

Another factor, is it best to?

a) buy an expensive VFD for sure fire results and long-term reliability, OR,

b) take a risk on a cheap VFD, and replace if it fails.  Replacing is often cheaper than going for top quality, especially if the machine is lightly used by a hobbyist rather than flogged 24×7 by a busy commercial operator.

Dave

 

 

[peak4Participant @peak4]

This is from the Warco manual, which I believe they will supply by email; not sure of the current spec of the supplied motor.

Note all the extra safety contacts/switches.
Off the top of my head, start/stop/reverse, chuck guard, footbrake/emergency stop and possibly others; there is also a work light and coolant pump.
My own GH1330 is single phase, so slightly different.

N.B. I suspect you will need quite a bit of re-wiring to use a VFD, as the switching will likely need to operate as low voltage control circuitry. switching on the output/power side of the VFD is likely not a good move.

Perhaps investigate a static or rotary converter.

I don’t have the component list from the GH1330 manual, but this is from an older GH1322, which looks similar;

 

 

This photo is from the American Grizzly version of the lathe, slightly larger, and obviously different voltages, but it will give you an idea of the control panel internals; mine is up against a wall, so difficult to photograph.

https://cdn3.grizzly.com/manuals/g9036_m.pdf Slight differences to the UK/Warco model, but a far more comprehensive manual

I did place the lathe partly in front of a window, so I can access the panel from outside the garage.

Bill

[cejm78Participant @cejm78]

Thank you Bill. Very much appreciated.

How do you find your single phase GH1330? As there is a single phase GH1330 for sale and I have been doubting which one to buy. In the end I settled for the 3 phase as it is newer and appears to be in better condition.

I have send a copy of the electrical system to the company and I am waiting to hear back.

Regarding vfd’s. I am not looking at the cheapest but it also doesn’t have to be gold standard. The lathe will not be in daily use.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

I’ve found it to be fine; no issues with stop/start overheating, or tripping the house mains, though I’d prefer to have a clutch.
I bought it several years ago, virtually unused; it’s an imperial version, which doesn’t seem to be on sale now.
Fit & finish isn’t as good as a high quality UK lathe like an M300, but I suspect an unworn Warco might be better than a clapped out Harrison at the same price.
Mine doesn’t have a DRO.
There have been complaints in the past about repetitive marking on power feed, which I’ve not found to be excessive, but I don’t use it commercially.
Somewhere on this site is a set of posts on how an owner re-built the saddle; the saddle lock is appalling on mine, but I’m not sure how to strip it to improve the clamping.

Bill

[peterhodParticipant @peterhod]

I have a GH1328 the slightly earlier version of the GH1330. Mine was 3 phase, I converted it to single phase. I have the circuit diagram somewhere. I bought a new motor and built a control box. Less than £100 all new.

[cejm78Participant @cejm78]

Thanks Bill. Mine doesn’t have a DRO either but it won’t be used daily, so not really an issue. It not a problem that can’t be overcome with some good measuring tools.

 

Thank you Peter. I will be sticking to the 3 phase model with vfd. I found a video on the tube of somebody converting a GH1440 to run on a vfd. The electrics a very similar so it shouldn’t be too difficult. A vfd can be had relatively cheaply but I think that I go for something in the middle. No point if the vfd fails every couple of years.

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