Use of 2 front wheeled motorcycles on the TdeF

[GreensandsParticipant @greensands]

[GreensandsParticipant @greensands]

Hi All – As a keen follower of the Tour de France I notice that the accompanying photographers filming the race are quite often to be seen being conveyed on motorcycles with a pair of front wheels. At first I assumed that this was to give maximum stability but other shots show that this is not general practice as conventional motorcycles can also be seen in the role. Perhaps some of our two wheel enthusiasts in the forum can elucidate.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Yamaha are the official motorcycle supplier so they provide them for certain rolls, normal bikes will be press, neutral service etc

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Must be nice being the competitors, gasping for every bit of oxygen with bikes and cars pumping out exhaust gasses just feet in front of them – crazy.

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

I've no idea about the TDF but those 2-front-wheel bikes are popular in the UK because our licensing laws allows for(some of) them to be ridden on a car license whilst remaining in the motorcycle taxation class, so they can (in London, anyway) be ridden in most bus lanes, are exempt from congestion charge and use motorcycle parking bays most of which are free.

It's all down to how far apart the wheels are. Some manufacturers do a UK-specific model to exploit the 'loophole'.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I think the official Skoda cars are all electric this year so they are getting there.

Bit about the bikes here

[colin wilkinsonParticipant @colinwilkinson75381]

Yamaha Niken, 3 cyl 850cc not cheap though

https://www.thebikemarket.co.uk/yamaha/niken

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Regardless of how it performs it is a plug ugly beast.

Mike

[BrevaParticipant @breva]

You're right there Mike!

What are the supposed advantages, other than being just different, or that they can stand up on their own?

I think I'll stick with my Guzzi!

John

[Brian Sweeting 2Participant @briansweeting2]

Mind you Piaggio started it with their MP3 scooter.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Used to watch one going about where I live and maintaining the front wheel geometrics looked pretty complicated for a bike

On our pothole ridden third world road system I got the impression that it wouldn't be long before wonky tyre wear became an issue, as with various cars

edit: Those Yamahas do look a lot more substantial though, the one I used to see was a more scooter type design

 

Edited By Ady1 on 14/09/2020 07:00:27

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

If you read my link they were found to be more stable in testing by ASO, handy when creeping up an alpine road with a camera man moving about all over the place on the back.

[Gerard O’TooleParticipant @gerardotoole60348]

Thanks for the link Jason, I think it actually says they "….provide a lot of stability.", not necessarily more than a normal motorcycle.

I noticed a good few three wheelers in France and Italy in a road trip in 2019 so they are becoming more popular though still a minority of all motorcycles.

[Graham StoppaniParticipant @grahamstoppani46499]

Posted by Speedy Builder5 on 13/09/2020 20:47:19:

Must be nice being the competitors, gasping for every bit of oxygen with bikes and cars pumping out exhaust gasses just feet in front of them – crazy.

BMW have been providing electric scooters for the past couple of years for filming the Great North Run and other races in the UK.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I read this bit too, additional is more in my book.

• The NIKEN has been chosen to offer the motorbike riders additional stability.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Piaggio and Gilera came out with three wheel bikes quite a while ago but I have never had the thought go through my head that I want one of those.

Mike

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Piaggio marketed this type years before anybody else, the bike cranks over like a normal bike with a clever linkage keeping the front wheels parallel, but the inside one goes up, while the outside one goes down. The concept is to attract people who might be wary of holding up a normal two wheeler.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

… and Ariel, of course, used the wrong wheel layout

**LINK**

BSA Ariel 3 – What Were They Thinking?

MichaelG.

[clogsParticipant @clogs]

as always, for the brit manufactures…whats the cheapest they can get away with……

seems the modern 3 wheelers are used a lot on mainland europe….

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

The usual rule of thumb is that a three wheeler of any sort will combine all of the worst features of both cars and motorcycles, without including any of the good features. The tricycle layouts, both forward and reversed for instance ensure that if there is a pothole, at least one of your wheels will hit it.

John

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

Having ridden a Yamaha Niken I think this additional stability thing is just not noticeable while riding "normally". The bike rode well, but most do these days. I think the additional stability would help out in difficult conditions, slippery roads for instance, or when a rider exceeds their ability.

Very comfortable though and plenty of room for a pillion. These points, I think, would make it appeal to the riders providing support for Le Tour. Yamaha are making the most of an opportunity here.

I found it amusing (don't know why) that the Niken will not stand up without a conventional stand.

John

[Gerard O’TooleParticipant @gerardotoole60348]

Posted by John MC on 15/09/2020 07:53:42:

Having ridden a Yamaha Niken I think this additional stability thing is just not noticeable while riding "normally". ….

….

I found it amusing (don't know why) that the Niken will not stand up without a conventional stand.

John

I had wondered about that.

Was it more stable than a normal motorcycle at slow speeds? I could see that being an advantage on TdeF

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

Posted by Gerard O'Toole on 15/09/2020 08:03:18:

Posted by John MC on 15/09/2020 07:53:42:

Having ridden a Yamaha Niken I think this additional stability thing is just not noticeable while riding "normally". ….

….

I found it amusing (don't know why) that the Niken will not stand up without a conventional stand.

John

I had wondered about that.

Was it more stable than a normal motorcycle at slow speeds? I could see that being an advantage on TdeF

Not something I noticed as being that much better the a conventional motorcycle, it still needs input from the rider to keep it upright.

To get a motorcycle to track straight at very low speed, say less than 6-7mph, the technique is to move the handlebars side to side, only a small amount but this will keep the bike moving in a straight line without weaving. This is something I have noticed some support riders doing at cycling events when progress slows to these sorts of speeds, which isn't very often! I think control at very slow speeds comes more from rider experience than having an extra front wheel.

John

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

According to the motorcycling press test ride reports the two front wheels dont give any noticeable extra low speed stability. They dont lock upright at low speed like the Piaggio. So the Yamaha still needs a sidestand when parked.

The big advantage the testers say is greatly enhanced front end grip when cornering in wet , slippery or rough conditions. Two tyres grip better than one. And apparently if you overcook it in a wet corner it can be slid sideways like a car without loss of control instead of the more usual lowside crash that results when your single front tire lets go. Pretty handy through the alps I should imagine.

Edited By Hopper on 15/09/2020 09:34:21

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Posted by Hopper on 15/09/2020 09:32:57:. Two tyres grip better than one. And apparently if you overcook it in a wet corner it can be slid sideways like a car without loss of control instead of the more usual lowside crash that results when your single front tire lets go. Pretty handy through the alps I should imagine.

My dad used a sidecar bike for years and said they always stopped in a straight line because of the free wheel

You just had to remember the mudguard poking out 6 inches beyond the sidecar when passing down the outside of a bus…

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