New Lathe Tooling

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I can pick up the headstock end of my 280 still on the stand enough to walk it out from the wall.

I have about 1/2" gap – just enough for the wire to come out the back and stop the quick blow fuse holder touching.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Terry Kirkup on 20/11/2018 11:13:14:

…

Can I thank our Moderators who seem to have allowed me to get away with veering slightly off the original topic, doesn't happen in some of my biking forums!

I find this forum considerably more friendly and helpful than most. I think it's because the moderators don't insist on threads staying rigorously on topic. This encourages conversations: you can start with one question and then move naturally to another. It's more like a chat than a formal meeting, which I think mostly adds value.

Of course, thread drift can be very annoying. Not so good if you ask a serious question about the number of rivets on the buffer beam of an GWR Buffalo and come back 10 minutes later to find the forum arguing about whether or not Thomas the Tank Engine is a confirmed bachelor…

Dave

[Terry KirkupParticipant @terrykirkup37827]

Hi Jason. I think that physically I may be Olive Oil to your Popeye! And cheers for that Dave, I feel a bit less guilty now, and a touch of humour is worth a thousand criticisms in my book.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If the problem is lifting the lathe onto the stand, and you cannot arrange an overhead lift (Engine crane, pulley block +skyhook, or shearlegs) how about jack and pack?

It will be slow, and you need to take care that both ends rise at very nearly the same rate, to prevent it sliding off, especially onto you!

If you have helpers, who can steady the lathe, it may be possible to get it onto a stout board and lift that with a car scissor jack, (they are usually rated for enough weight to cope with your lathe)

Jacking and packing may be tedious, but it will lift it high enough, if you can obtain enough packing. Am loath to suggest bricks or breeze blocks in case they should crumble (the risk is with old ones, new may well be OK for the short times that they will be subject to the load. This is where your helpers come into play. They steady things so that if there is any risk of slipping they ) steady things, and b) warn you so that you can back off.

Once level with the stand / bench you slide the lathe off the board into place..

Once on the bench / stand, mount one of my hobbyhorses and take any twist out of the bed.

then you are all set for ages of enjoyment.

Howard

[Terry KirkupParticipant @terrykirkup37827]

Thanks for the advice Howard. I think I'll have to rely on brute strength (not mine!) to get it up there as the shed floor won't take jacking with that sort of concentrated weight. I've had to cut the floor where each end of the stand will sit and dig two 2 foot square holes down to clay level (16 inches deep) and fill them with concrete to carry the lathe. I finished insulating, lining and painting the walls around the lathe area today and now a bit impatient to see the thing in real life. Hope the North Sea doesn't freeze over before SS China docks in the UK!

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by JasonB on 20/11/2018 11:44:46:

I can pick up the headstock end of my 280 still on the stand enough to walk it out from the wall.

Be very careful doing that Jason. In particular don't twist while lifting. I did something similar in my 30s and damaged my back. Now, in my 70s I'm having to have physio twice a week for back problems.

Russell.

[Terry KirkupParticipant @terrykirkup37827]

Now I'm really scared! The boat docked last week and today Warco had it presented to me on a platter, er I mean pallet. It just about fit in what's left of my so-called garage. All I can say is Wow! Unfortunately I'm about half way through a flu-like living hell (had my jab so no complaints there) and the last thing I fancy doing is spending time outside in the cold so it will have to wait. At least I can now satisfy my curiosity about the sizes of AXA, BXA and CXA toolposts and potentially order the right one, assuming I measure correctly.

Edited By Terry Kirkup on 11/12/2018 18:23:45

Edited By Terry Kirkup on 11/12/2018 18:24:37

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

For the moment, I would not worry too much about Q C Toolposts. You can live with the four way. quite well.

You may find a Back Toolpost more useful for Parting Off. If you don't buy one, you could make one. (I made a fourway indexing Back Toolpost for my lathe, just to be difficult)

(Should make for some interesting turning! Hopefully, the deal includes a Four Jaw independent chuck, which will be extremely useful?) That, of course then leads you down the path of buying a clock or two, one a Finger Clock, the other a Plunger Clock, and either a Scribing Block or a Magnetic Base.

You are on the slippery slope already! But the kit will always be useful.

Find and join a Model Engineering Club. You will not only find advice, very likely practical help, and probably someone who will either lend you odd accessory that you need, or come round with theirs.

Riding one of my many hobby horses, do ensure that the bed is free from twist, to avoid inadvertent turning of tapers.

Enjoy yourself!

Howard

[Cabinet EnforcerParticipant @cabinetenforcer]

Terry, welcome to the 280/290 club, I find it is a useful size for real world stuff, and the ability to knock up custom bearing drifts and pullers is a massive boon for maintenance work on full sussers with their myriad bearing types and sizes.

My 280 has even managed to recreate some busted hope ti hub flanges with the help of a rotary table.

The 280/290 has very little room on the topside to fit in larger toolposts and tools, I remade one of the rotating clamp parts between cross and top slide to fit a T1 sized Dickson qctp, and 16mm tooling. Otherwise I think 12mm may be the limit.

As for supplies of stock you are in luck, even for small bits postage becomes the overriding cost, so local is almost always cheaper. Jenkins steel, in Cramlington are an eBay steel seller, often selling off cuts from their engineering side, I have bought from them a few times now, and they seem a good bunch.

[J BENNETT 1Participant @jbennett1]

Hi Terry, I have a WM250, which I have had since 2005. Although I haven't used it a great deal. Apart from a few niggles it has been quite satisfactory.

As a point of interest I note that on their website Warco state :-

• Every Warco lathe is fully run and tested by a qualified member of our team before leaving our premises, and is supplied with an individual accuracy test report.

So, given that it only arrived at the dock last week, the question is have they taken it first to their premises, fully un-crated it, tested it, re-crated it and then shipped it to you? Unless of course they are referring to premises they may have in the country of manufacture.

I should make it clear that I have absolutely no gripe with Warco and I also have a Warco Mill, I am just curious.

Hope you are feeling better soon and can start using your new machine.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

This has been covered before the test report is shipped with the lathe from the factory so the accuracy checks are not done by Warco in the UK.

[J BENNETT 1Participant @jbennett1]

Hi Jason, sorry for raising an old issue. I have been a subscriber to MEW for about fifteen years, but only recently joined the forum!

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

No problem, you would have had a job finding that hidden away within an old thread anyway.

[Terry KirkupParticipant @terrykirkup37827]

Thanks CE, Jenkins does indeed look useful and just up the road.

JB1, thank you too. Warco may well not touch the thing between it arriving in Surrey and ending up in my garage but they have at least seen inside the box as that's where they stuck my milling slide and vise, so it may have had a cursory glance and looks OK to me looking down into its coffin. The Chinese gloop on everyhing smells disgusting and not good to inhale in my present state!

I've managed to hump the two pedestals and bits of shelving up to the shed where I was unpleasantly surprised to discover my concrete pads are 60mm too far apart! That's with trying to guess their positions from measurements I found online somewhere. I suppose I can let that much of the tailstock pedestal stand on a few inches of the flooring which is 20mm tongue & groove with half inch ply on top of that, the rest secure on the concrete.

Also managed to screw an old four foot tubular heater to the wall just above floor level behind the machine position, only 60 watts per foot but I reckon it should keep the Oxide Beast away. It's fed from a thermostat controlled socket.

[Terry KirkupParticipant @terrykirkup37827]

Jason, if you can swing the heavy end away from the wall does that mean nothing is bolted down in your setup? I glanced at the covered holes in the pedestals and wondered how on earth I'd get easy rawl type fixings in there.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Terry Kirkup on 12/12/2018 16:43:16:

…

JB1, thank you too. Warco may well not touch the thing between it arriving in Surrey and ending up in my garage but they have at least seen inside the box as that's where they stuck my milling slide and vise, …

… where I was unpleasantly surprised to discover my concrete pads are 60mm too far apart! … I suppose I can let that much of the tailstock pedestal stand on a few inches of the flooring which is 20mm tongue & groove with half inch ply on top of that, the rest secure on the concrete.

…

My impression is that Warco open the case and run the lathe, probably very briefly, on the pallet. It would be easy enough to check the main functions are OK (motor starts/reverses, speed control, spindle turns, power traverses works, hand controls etc.) . I'd suggest Terry does similar superficial tests before fully unpacking in the unlikely case there's a problem and it has to go back. I don't think Warco get Dr Schlesinger out of the deep freeze to check all his limits.

Re flooring I strongly recommend supporting the tailstock end properly before installing the machine. The lathe may look like the rock of Gibraltar but the bed is surprisingly bendy when you put a DTI on it. Any twist will effect the accuracy, and vibration will cause poor finish. It's well worth making sure the lathe is properly supported at both ends.

Sorry to hear you have flu! I expect it's a computer virus…

Dave

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Terry Kirkup on 12/12/2018 16:53:09:

Jason, if you can swing the heavy end away from the wall does that mean nothing is bolted down in your setup? I glanced at the covered holes in the pedestals and wondered how on earth I'd get easy rawl type fixings in there.

Mine is not fixed to the (wooden) floor.

If you want to fix it down then loose nut type Rawl fixings rather than loose bolt or drop a couple of thro-bolts into the holes first, stand the cabinets on top and you Should be able to get nuts onto the ends of the fixings.

I have a feeling the newer open shelf stands are a slightly different size to the old curved panel type which is where your sizes may have gone wrong.

Also worth putting a bead of silicon around the fixings that hold the lathe to the stand, this will stop any oil from dripping through the tray and filling the cabinet, though it does keep the rust off what's inside.

[Terry KirkupParticipant @terrykirkup37827]

Hello again Gents (and Ladies if there are any?).

I managed to retrieve the manual and test paperwork from the bottom of the coffin yesterday, still preparing the base for the 290V so can't lift it out yet.

However, on reading said manual there are several discrepancies which hit me immediately and have me slightly worried. Take a look. First is from the included Warco manual:-

And this from their web site – obviously the one that persuaded me to go for the 290:-

There are some BIG and worrying differences here in taper sizes, travel, swing, spindle bore etc.. Can anyone put my mind at rest before I do take it out of the crate in case it needs to go back?

Edited By Terry Kirkup on 15/12/2018 12:27:07

Edited By Terry Kirkup on 15/12/2018 12:27:59

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

have you had a look up the bore, expect it is 38mm and that needs MT5.

My 280 manual says I have a MT2 tailstock but it is MT3

[Terry KirkupParticipant @terrykirkup37827]

Ta for that Jason, I hope you are right. I'll try and get the lid off again later today and take a looksee. I've already bought a few MT3 bits for it and the 38mm spindle bore was THE big attraction for me.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

I'm looking to get a 290 so am following this thread with great interest!

Tony

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The 290V is quoted as weighing 210Kg, and the 290 as 230 Kg. A larger mandrel, and probably bigger roller bearings, may explain the difference.

If it has a 5MT mandrel, I hope that a 5MT- 3MT reducer comes as part of the package.

Similarly, if it does turn out to be a 4MT, a reducing sleeve will be needed at some stage.

Either way, a 1.5Kw motor will provide lots of power. Possibly more than you really need.

At my request, a 1.5 hp motor was fitted (as part of the 3 phase VFD pre delivery conversion) rather than a 2 hp, and a cut of 0.100" on steel, does not seem to slow it.

Either way, it should be a useful machine.

Howard

[Terry KirkupParticipant @terrykirkup37827]

Tony Pratt, I'm going to have to make you wait until tomorrow to discover which spec is right! I've just finished joining, levelling and fixing down the 6-piece base unit (a chore without a perfectly flat floor) so I'd rather not have to send mine back, but still having the 'flu I'm knackered now so need a rest to get the crate opened again. This may sound funny but I sleep better with the lid nailed shut in the garage and won't feel safe until it's safely ensconced up the garden path!

Edited By Terry Kirkup on 15/12/2018 16:33:33

[Terry KirkupParticipant @terrykirkup37827]

So, just been back in the box. Tony it's good news! There is indeed a gaping hole through the chuck just as the web version of the description claims, it swallows a 36mm fork leg. I'm now trying to shrink the thing for the lift to the shed. Got the chuck, tailstock, follow rest and steady rest off so only the compound slide to go. Don't want to attempt loosening anything else as there are scary DRO cables and stuff everywhere. If I was giving a layman's visual assessment of the whole thing I'd have to say it looks stunning. In order to get it through two 2'9" doors with a big lad at each corner I'm going to have to remove the backplate too but that should lose a few more kilos.

Just a note here – I got a cheap Stanley laser level to finish setting up the stand and what a boon that thing is.

Back to work!

Edited By Terry Kirkup on 16/12/2018 12:19:38

[Terry KirkupParticipant @terrykirkup37827]

Well, it's in. Took five of us 75 minutes of hard graft this evening. Now the real newbie questions will start flying in to you wise old heads. If I can shake free of babysitting duties later tomorrow I'll see if I can check the bed for twist. It'll be a miracle if there's none at all as the floor of the crate was barely supported by the pallet below right at back left corner where the leftmost fixing hole is and the crate floor (20mm ply or blockboard) was visibly bowed at that end (headstock) when I took the end panels off it.

Edited By Terry Kirkup on 16/12/2018 22:57:09

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