Just a thought – What is the minimum ????

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

I’m always bemused and somewhat disheartened by the large number of beginners now that think a fully equipped workshop with full CNC is minimal requirement before any of them can make anything at all .

My memories go back to different times when main equipment in home workshops was just a basic lathe – not usually a new or very good one at that . As time progressed some got a little more equipment but many never did in their whole lifetimes .

Many and varied where the projects made in these simple workshops – certainly many good locomotives .

The most minimal workshop I ever actually saw belonged to Dave Miller – a driver off LLandore shed .

The workshop was just the tiny landing at the top of the stairs in a small terraced house . Lathe was a 2-1/2 inch GrindTurn .

With just this set up he built several locomotives and later ones were very good indeed .

MikeW

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

I remember back in the day, serving my time (wood – not metal) I was absolitely shocked to see the brand new ELECTRIC hand saw arrive. The kind of saw I used to use cutting timber can actually be found in museums now.

Power tools and equipment are not a requirement but nice to have. But I have fire an anvil and a hammer which turns out some nice things once in a while. I can saw a straight line though!

graham.

[TobaccoBurnerParticipant @tobaccoburner]

How about a razor blade from Dad and a few pins from Mum's sewing box. This is sufficient for a decent chuck glider.

Next step is a pair of pliers for bending piano wire and a soft brush for dope application. We are now into rubber powered free flight.

When Santa delivers your first engine you may want to add a small hand drill, screwdriver and soldering iron. The sky is then your oyster (if you can find anywhere far enough away from the H & S and noise police to actually fly the thing).

MikeD

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

When I was a kid maybe fourteen years old I was fascinated by things that go bang. I made a working example using a block of brass and a salvaged barrel, The tools were a hack saw a hand drill and a few files. It worked and I am sad to say made a fair dent in the local starling population. in the suburbs too! Imagine If a kid did that these days. They would send in the SWAT team.

Regards
John

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

I think part of it is that kids grow up thinking the minimum is what they see in their dad's shed. Consequently, as each generation gets wealthier, the minimum gets greater.

Heaven help my kids.. Especially the one that inherits my workshop.

Regards,

Richard.

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

John..swat team…yeah.i mean. … a teen with a hacksaw…

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Probably all part of the “I want and I want it NOW!” syndrome of life today.

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

John,

Quite agree. "Nothing new under the sun" as they say but always learning something.

John

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

Posted by TobaccoBurner on 26/11/2013 00:45:18:

How about a razor blade from Dad and a few pins from Mum's sewing box. This is sufficient for a decent chuck glider.

Next step is a pair of pliers for bending piano wire and a soft brush for dope application. We are now into rubber powered free flight.

When Santa delivers your first engine you may want to add a small hand drill, screwdriver and soldering iron. The sky is then your oyster (if you can find anywhere far enough away from the H & S and noise police to actually fly the thing).

MikeD

Mike – reading that brought back a rush of nostalgia – Galloping Ghost RC anyone?

I just love those people who look at a problem and think "Of course I can do that, why couldn't I do that?" and then go on to create one of those well documented DIY disasters!
The local education authorities have a great deal to answer for – I remember the new head of the local (very, very successful) technical college selling ALL of the tools and machinery because 'Computers are the future'.

Enter stage right the local DIY emporium with lovely glossy adverts for those time saving tools. Apparently it is impossible to put a shelf up without the thick end of £400 of Power Tools.
Cheaper to employ someone who knows what they are doing.

Then of course we have the new and latest generation of motor cars, something that many people did was service their own cars, you quite soimply cannot do this nowadays with the average toolbox. You need a laptop, the appropriate software and a cable – which can cost as much as £120 just for the cable – so you can reset the service interval and look at any fault codes.

In the spirit of the original question though I am thinking that maybe what we should be looking at as a sort of starting point for a workshop. Although we look back with nostalgia to those "Good Old Days" – and many were – I would look at today. What should a basic workshop contain? Making your first set of 1-2-3 blocks as an apprentice is great, and you learn much from the experience, it is just not a practical starting point for the Home Hobbyist. In My Opinion.

I hope to go to the Chester Tools open day next week and I am going to be interested to see the age range of the people there.

graham.

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

Pins from mums sewing box, syrup tins – sheer luxury! Now when I was a lad iron was a luxury that had to be forged before you could make things from it. Knife and fork took so long to make that most had starved before they were finished.

A milling machine mangled wurzels to feed the family cow and a lathe was a strip of willow daubed with mud which with others, formed ones humble abode.

Centre punch? One in the guts.

Scriber? Writes letters.

Lathe tool? Operator

Shaper? Politician

Wiggler? Dodgy politician.

Centre drill? Very dodgy wigglers trying to get their story straight.

Cynic? Oh all right then!

Rik

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I think i was 14 when I started to build up my own workshop. I was given the space and the use of any of my Dad's tools I could use without being caught… I had to scrounge my own junk furniture etc. for things like making a workbench.

I had a 4" quick release vice – reclaimed by the aged P some 33 years ago a venerable Juneero machine, and antex soldering iron, a nice steel rule (I still have it!) a decent modelling knife, pliers and assorted junior hacksaws, screwdrivers (including a meccano one made from bent wire) random allen keys etc. On a good day i could sneak access to my dad's brace and bit and I took possession of a slightly blunt hardpoint saw (in the days when these were a novelty. Curiously all this random junk was complemented by a really high quality Eagle multimeter (almost AVO standard) and my Dad's Heathkit oscilloscope – he had another one of the meters (without the replacement bunch of 1W 1ohm resistors in parallel for the current range)) a real AVO and a 'proper' scope. I was very pleased with eh screen hood ogf teh scope, which I made from a plastic flower pot with the bottom cut off.

These saw a few model boats and planes, a few random electrical and TTL electronic projects, a decent hifi amp and speakers, a model railway and lots of plastic kits.

I even pre-empted the modern trend for valve-based fuzz boxes by building the amplifier from an autochanger into the chassis of a lightly butchered 'Trough Line' radio (someone had pinched the tuning capacitor – at the time it was obsolete, but not a collector's item!) I just added a 1/4" jack at input and output, then into my 'power amplifier' which was made from another autochanger, but with the turntable discarded and a 10" speaker grafted into the box.

Amazingly these adventures did not cause any loss of life, more by luck than judgement.

Sadly, when I went off to Uni, I lost my workshop (a draughty 6×6 victorian 'conservatory&#39 but kept some of the gear, although it was nearly 20 years before I was able to reclaim the multimeter!

Looking back, I was extraordinarily lucky, at the time, I assumed that it was perfectly normal. We were neither poor nor well off, but my parents gave me a space of my own, which is the best thing an inquisitive boy can have. I think I spent more time in it, just enjoying being there with my junk, than I ever did making things. To be honest, i still enjoy just sitting surrounded by my 'junk' and dreaming of what I can do.

So the minimum? Something to dream about, and a little space to dream in.

Neil

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

"…put a shelf up without the thick end of £400 of Power Tools."
Yes but aren't they great. I only recently got an SDS drill – the thing just carves through solid concrete like soft clay and then I think of my Pa with his little hand drill. How ever did he manage? I have wasted years only using a whimpy 300W hammer drill.

[Phil H 1Participant @philh1]

I hope to go to the Chester Tools open day next week and I am going to be interested to see the age range of the people there.

graham.

Graham,

I'll be going to Chester too Im looking for a heavier milling machine. Oh Im in my early 50s.

PhilH

[magpieParticipant @magpie]

I went to the last Chester open week on the first day and I have to say that even with the rather small price reductions the stuff on sale was still more expensive than dealers like ArcEuro. No prejudice, as I have a Chester mill and lathe. I think that most of the folk there were pensioners, and I am 73 yoa.

Cheers Derek.

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

Posted by Bogstandard2 on 26/11/2013 16:54:08:

…That is why I always take notice of what some people have to say, as there is always something new to learn….

And those who know this are probably the ones who know most of all

All the best machinists I have known have been those who are so aware of their own limitations and have such high standards that they cannot see the quality of work they do produce. Shame really.

Regards,

Richard

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

The minimum is what makes you happy. If a file, a drill and screwdriver delights then that is fine. People used to make steam engines with not much more. The answer relies on context. If you have a mortgage to pay based on making bits to a tolerance, then wholly different answer.

I continue to lust after one of those CNC machines from Arceurotrade, so the MINIMUM is a KX1…and it is the minimum if you want to make bits using CNC. Depends on what your hobby is. I find filing quite soothing so I don't do absolutely everything on the mill. If getting a component bob on square, it will go on the mill. So for me a mill is part of my minimum.

"All the best machinists I have known have been those who are so aware of their own limitations and have such high standards that they cannot see the quality of work they do produce. Shame really."

This is true – who does not see only the errors in the completed model? Even when others regard it with envy? I think this applies not just to the best machinist's but anyone setting out to produce a model to a high standard.

The first real "powerup" in my workshop was a Clarke bench grinder, I simply cannot imagine how people get by without one. Then came the lathe, then the mill…

Regards

Steve

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Hi Guys,

I'm with Bogs, which I might summarise with:"the only thing new in engineering is what I have not come across yet"

chriStephens

[davebParticipant @daveb17630]

Posted by TobaccoBurner on 26/11/2013 00:45:18:

How about a razor blade from Dad and a few pins from Mum's sewing box. This is sufficient for a decent chuck glider.

Next step is a pair of pliers for bending piano wire and a soft brush for dope application. We are now into rubber powered free flight.

When Santa delivers your first engine you may want to add a small hand drill, screwdriver and soldering iron. The sky is then your oyster (if you can find anywhere far enough away from the H & S and noise police to actually fly the thing).

MikeD

Yes Mike, it's possible to make nice stuff with a minimum of equipment. I suppose it all starts with the original concept and opposable thumbs, we have the ability to make or improvise the tools to produce the artifact. Those that do are probably a minority but if you think about it, they always have been.

I have to say I am a bit concerned about you making gliders out of razors and pins, bit dangerous to bystanders, hmm? Might explain H&S interest.

[davebParticipant @daveb17630]

Posted by Bazyle on 26/11/2013 21:03:54:

"…put a shelf up without the thick end of £400 of Power Tools."
Yes but aren't they great. I only recently got an SDS drill – the thing just carves through solid concrete like soft clay and then I think of my Pa with his little hand drill. How ever did he manage? I have wasted years only using a whimpy 300W hammer drill.

Yes, they are a world away from the hammer drills of the 70s but even those were better than the Rawltool and Stardrill (worked like hammer drill but you had to supply your own hammer) If anyone fancies going back to nature, I happen to have a brand new unused Rawltool with some tips. It was OK to smash hand with hammer in those days (actually, it was unavoidable), young folks got it easy now.

Dave

[TobaccoBurnerParticipant @tobaccoburner]

Posted by daveb on 28/11/2013 21:02:24:

……I have to say I am a bit concerned about you making gliders out of razors and pins, bit dangerous to bystanders, hmm? Might explain H&S interest……

Never thought of that – must have a go. By the way, forgot to include First Aid kit in the original list. Essential when using double edged razor blades.

[Author]

Posts