Colchester Lathe Factory

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Wonderful film, Alan Thanks for the link

Everything from casting through to the Talyrond inspection

Can you imagine what it must have cost, to provision that facility !?!

MichaelG.

[Andrew EvansParticipant @andrewevans67134]

Thanks for the link Alan.

I think they must have painted all the machinery in gold just for the film – it looks too perfect otherwise.

Andy

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Posted by Hopper on 31/05/2019 03:49:34:

Just a matter of money. If a new Myford is 5,000 quid, what price a shiny new Colchester?

Don't know about that Colchester but a new Harrison M300 which is about the same spec will cost around £15,000 (+VAT) which if you say it quickly doesn't sound too bad. Colchester, Harrison and Clausing are all part of the 600 group and all their new lathes seem to sport the Colchester livery and logo.

John

Edited By Journeyman on 31/05/2019 09:54:05

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by Journeyman on 31/05/2019 09:45:01:

Posted by Hopper on 31/05/2019 03:49:34:

Just a matter of money. If a new Myford is 5,000 quid, what price a shiny new Colchester?

Don't know about that Colchester but a new Harrison M300 which is about the same spec will cost around £15,000 (+VAT) which if you say it quickly doesn't sound too bad. Colchester, Harrison and Clausing are all part of the 600 group and all their new lathes seem to sport the Colchester livery and logo.

John

Edited By Journeyman on 31/05/2019 09:54:05

Today's Student and M300 are badge engineered clones of each other.

As John says, a new M300/Student (long bed) is around £20k all in.

Mine is all the lathe I will ever need

[Stuart BridgerParticipant @stuartbridger82290]

Date on of the film?
The Chipmaster was launched in '57. Thames Service van shown has a pre-63 number plate format and was also launched in the same year, but we clearly don't know how old it was when the film was shot.

Any more clues?

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by DC31k on 31/05/2019 07:06:11:

Posted by Hopper on 30/05/2019 12:46:45:

Best part though is cleaning those casting mould boxes by spraying kerosene with a blow gun, then casually lighting a piece of paper from the (very) nearby blowtorch and flashing it all off. LOL.

Would it have been kerosene? He says 'spirit carrier', so much more likely alcohol-based. Paraffin ignited in that manner would be rather smoky.

What interests me is all the gold-coloured machines they use to make the lathes. Did they paint them up specially for the film or was every machine in the factory that colour?

I liked the roll-up fag the moulder had tucked behind his ear!

Some of the close-ups show the gold paint was sprayed a little carelessly. Pretty sure it was added to help the colour photography along and to direct our eyes to the important bits.

Interesting that the film emphasised that the lathe was 'inexpensive' and it highlighted a number of go-faster high accuracy production methods (no scraping). At the same time they were still using labour intensive methods. Several chaps tarting up the headstock with filler and wet and dry was the most glaring example.

The film clearly showed the attention to detail that made Colchester successful. At the same period Dean Smith & Grace were famously the Rolls Royce of lathe makers; I wonder if they made a similar film showing what has to be done to make a better lathe than a Colchester? Whatever it is, it's expensive!

Although manual lathes still have an important role, they haven't been mainstream in manufacturing production for at least 50 years. Even capstan lathes were 'old-hat' when the film made, and – although they too still have a role – they were progressively elbowed aside by various automatics. First Cam & hydraulic, then Numeric Control, then CNC, and now CAD/CAM and Robots. Not much demand for 1955-style capstan lathes today!

There's a feeling on the forum that British Industry has gone to the dogs. It's true manufacturing is no longer the main way Great Britain makes a living. It's also true that manufacturing is much less obvious, the chimneys, slag heaps, marshalling yards, furnaces, factories and mills have mostly gone. So has making cheap items like tin trays, steel buckets, penknives, and mops. Millions of jobs have gone too. But last time I checked, British Industry was making slightly more profit than it did in the glorious 1950's. Rather than packing giant factories with people, industry now operates from small anonymous units in business parks. Machine centres are the most popular machine tools like this example. Manufacturing has mostly moved up market; aerospace rather than nails, and pharmaceuticals rather than fertiliser. It's a bad mistake to confuse busy activity with success.

As I write it looks as if British Steel has reached the end of the road. The big problem isn't politics, Health and Safety, mismanagement or Brussels, it's that Coal and Iron Ore both have to be imported because the local natural resources are exhausted. All good things come to an end, the important thing is to move on.

Dave

[Alan JacksonParticipant @alanjackson47790]

I visited the factory as an apprentice in about 1957, so this video reminds me of that visit. I think the whole factory was very proud of the machines they produced. Here is a photo of my Chipmaster, still going well.

I have rebuilt this old lathe and I think it now runs nearly as good as it ever did. Replaced the speed variator with an inverter, modified the cross slide and added a new lever locking top slide, plus the capstan feed tailstock

Alan

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Beautiful machines ,alas I will never get to own one.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Alan; lovely machine, have you just cleaned it or haven't you used it yet, pristine condition…

George.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Interesting to compare with modern Chinese factories like this. The most noticeable difference is the cleanliness of the modern factory.

I wonder if Ketan can find a video of the Seig factory.

Russell

[Stuart BridgerParticipant @stuartbridger82290]

Alas my Chipmaster is not as shiny as Alan's. It is still much better than my capabilities though. 1963 model bought from a local engineering shop. Originally supplied to the REME training workshop at Aborfield. Imperial model fitted with dual dials, which I understand is quite rare. Original splash guard went AWOL, so the guys I bought it from fabricated  a new one for me FOC. Converted to single phase with a VFD, although retaining the variator. Recent addition is a taper turning attachment.

Edited By Stuart Bridger on 31/05/2019 11:42:31

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

[This posting has been removed]

[Brian OldfordParticipant @brianoldford70365]

Posted by DC31k on 31/05/2019 07:06:11:

Would it have been kerosene? He says 'spirit carrier', so much more likely alcohol-based. Paraffin ignited in that manner would be rather smoky.

What interests me is all the gold-coloured machines they use to make the lathes. Did they paint them up specially for the film or was every machine in the factory that colour?

The material in the spirit carrier would have been what's known in some foundries as plumbago.

It leaves a coating of graphite on the mould cavity which helps bind the surface of the sand mould and impart an improved finish to the casting. It acts as a binder to the sand and significantly reduces any erosion to the sand as the iron is flowing into the mould cavity.

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

That doesn't look a whole lot different than Boxfords at Boxtrees Mill in the early '80s, though Boxford didn't have their own foundy & all the castings were "weathered" outside for months before clean-up in a similar shot blaster. The filler used then was two part polyester body filler, still rubbed down by hand.

Today's Student and M300 are badge engineered clones of each other. And currently built in Taiwan. They have also variously been built in recent years in Russia, Czech Republic & China. The TS Harrison plant in Heckmondwike, which is where Colchester Lathes production was re-located after the site shown was sold (IIRC to become a Tesco supermarket) was closed last year. The last products made there were the Harrison Alpha "manual plus" lathes & Colchester Tornado slant bed CNCs – it is probably at least 15 years since the last manual lathe was made there. My brother in law served his time at TS Harrison & was charge hand on the small turned parts & gear cutting section – he left when production of the manual machines ceased, as the variety of parts for the CNC machines was very small. Even then the M250 was made in Russia & I recall around the same time the owner of a machine shop I used in my last employment being very unhappy to find that the "top of the range" Colchester he bought new was actually a re-badged Czech machine.

The graphite product used to face the sand mould was probably DAG colloidal graphite suspension, which is supended in alchohol. It is still available & we have a 205 litre drum at work for use in vacuum furnace applications.

The paint used to seal gearbox internals was also spirit based. When I worked at Broadbent Machine Tools as an electrician wiring heavy duty lathes, we used to use it to paint out the insides of the electrical sections of castings (the fitters did the gearbox castings & didn't touch "electrical" bits !). It was quite a "claggy" paint that dried very fast – clean-up & thinning was done with methylated spirit. When dried oil didn't soften it & one of it's purposes was to bind any sand remaining in the casting to prevent it getting in to the oil and causing wear.

Nigel B

[ronan walshParticipant @ronanwalsh98054]

Colchesters ? Piles of absolute rubbish, toytown lathes. Having worked in many workshops professionally as a turner, i never had any time for them. Harrisons are better machines, if you wanted something from the 600 group. The headstocks get noisey after the first bit of hard work, the supposedly hardened bedways are rapid wear, they leak oil, get loose generally, the finish is appalling, and the price of spares is daylight robbery.

The only decent colchester i ever seen was a Japanese copy, it was vastly superior to the english made machines. Someone said they were disappointed to discover the modern colchesters are made in czech republic or somewhere around there ? Why ? Tos are czech and are top notch machines, light years ahead of colchesters. I seen 50 year old tos lathes that were better than 5 year old (or less) colchesters.

If you think i am wrong, head over to the practical machinist forum and ask for opinions on them, but be warned, put on your tin helmet and be ready to take cover.

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Dave, you mention that coal and iron ore have to be imported because local resources have been exhausted, I was under the impression that in respect of coal there were at least 100 years of resources left in the ground when the politicians decided to close our mines, the other factor was a commercial one the price of imported coal undercut our home product.

Dave W

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 31/05/2019 10:47:25:

……..

As I write it looks as if British Steel has reached the end of the road. The big problem isn't politics, Health and Safety, mismanagement or Brussels, it's that Coal and Iron Ore both have to be imported because the local natural resources are exhausted. All good things come to an end, the important thing is to move on.

Dave

We import iron ore and coal from the far reaches of the world to make iron, which we then have to convert to steel, whilst at the same time exporting steel scrap to China to be made into more steel. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

There is actually plenty of ironstone left in Northamptonshire, and they are about to open a coking coal mine in Cumbria, **LINK** but certainly the ironstone is more expensive than imported ore, but do we need to be involved in low tech industries like making iron, better concentrate on the more profitable occupations of making things out of steel.

[Phil StevensonParticipant @philstevenson54758]

According to a House of Commons briefing paper, in 2016 the UK produced 8 million tonnes of steel; China produced 808 million tonnes. UK is such a small producer it is almost off the graph. This represented something like 0.01 of the UK's economic output. Not many other similar sized industries get quite the attention that steel production does.

I'm sure I read somewhere recently that in the last two years China produced more steel than the UK has in the whole of history.

[ronan walshParticipant @ronanwalsh98054]

Posted by Phil Stevenson on 31/05/2019 16:47:52:

According to a House of Commons briefing paper, in 2016 the UK produced 8 million tonnes of steel; China produced 808 million tonnes. UK is such a small producer it is almost off the graph. This represented something like 0.01 of the UK's economic output. Not many other similar sized industries get quite the attention that steel production does.

I'm sure I read somewhere recently that in the last two years China produced more steel than the UK has in the whole of history.

I would hope still though that the steel industry in the uk does not and is not allowed to die. Maybe if the industry concentrated on quality special steels rather than mass producing mild steel, it could survive that way.

[Phil StevensonParticipant @philstevenson54758]

Brief but interesting article on the trials and travails of our surprisingly improved (productivity-wise) steel industry.

https://news.sky.com/story/the-surprising-facts-behind-the-declining-steel-industry-11725482

[Phil StevensonParticipant @philstevenson54758]

**LINK**

Sorry, here's a better attempt at the link. I hope ….

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by duncan webster on 31/05/2019 16:27:35:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 31/05/2019 10:47:25:

……..

As I write it looks as if British Steel has reached the end of the road. The big problem isn't politics, Health and Safety, mismanagement or Brussels, it's that Coal and Iron Ore both have to be imported because the local natural resources are exhausted. All good things come to an end, the important thing is to move on.

Dave

…

There is actually plenty of ironstone left in Northamptonshire, and they are about to open a coking coal mine in Cumbria, **LINK** but certainly the ironstone is more expensive than imported ore, but do we need to be involved in low tech industries like making iron, better concentrate on the more profitable occupations of making things out of steel.

Yes indeed, and I expect whatever coal and iron is left will be exploited again in the future.

At the moment, to make cheap steel you need 20 or so square kilometres of land preferably complete with a large deep water sea-port to minimise transport costs. Best if all the thousands of tons of coal, ore & scrap, limestone and fresh water used per day are local because it may be difficult to compete if any of it has to be shipped any distance.

Although I don't think there's much future in making cheap steel in the UK, speciality steels are a different story. An electric arc furnace doesn't take up much space and the raw materials it uses aren't massively bulky. Fewer jobs unfortunately, but profitable.

As an aside, British made 'cheap' steel isn't poor quality. Most British steel is rolled into strip form. Rolling steel into thin plates exposes quality problems like no other process, and any remaining flaws become obvious when the steel is pressed, for example when making car bodies. There's nothing wrong with 'cheap' British steel apart from the cost. If that problem can't be fixed it's time to do something else! Not an easy or nice process – our job to support redundant steel workers through difficult times ahead.

Dave

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

The Chinese are welcome to the mass steel industry, I reckon. The pollution in the industrial areas over there is just horrendous. I wouldn't want to live like that.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Thanks for the great link, Alan.

The well polished, impeccably articulated commentary complements the machinery. I particularly liked the neat advertising slogan "The world turns on Colchester lathes". Advertisers were clever with words at one time.

It occurs to me it might be helpful if there were a dedicated thread or subforum for vintage machining videos – assuming this would give them the extra exposure some of them deserve.

It would be nice to know how many of the machines depicted are still going strong 60 or so years later.

I'm smitten by the beautifully proportioned tailstock on your example, Alan.

I confess I have a thing about tailstocks (as Larry Grayson once remarked to Slack Alice).

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Posted by Bill Phinn on 01/06/2019 01:12:42:

The well polished, impeccably articulated commentary complements the machinery.

Sounds like the dulcet tones of William Franklyn, the ubiquitous voice over sound of my youth.

Rod

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