2 secs to break 2 hours to remove

2 secs to break 2 hours to remove

Home Forums Beginners questions 2 secs to break 2 hours to remove

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  • #85297
    michael burton 1
    Participant
      @michaelburton1

      just broke a 7ba tap in a 3/16'' piece of stainless steel tried knocking it round nope dried knocking it thru nope in the end i heated it to bright cheery red and broke it out with a carbide scriber then drilled the rest out, result nackerd tap nackerd scriber but saved work piece,

      so my question is would the heating of it to such a heat

      a) changed the structure of the tap and made it more brittle as before the heat it wouldnt break up.

      b) i was just really paitant and as the scriber was harder then most things that would fit in to the hole it finally gave in

      don't laugh to much my pride is failing me

       

       

      Edited By michael burton 1 on 20/02/2012 01:55:47

      Edited By michael burton 1 on 20/02/2012 01:57:44

      Edited By michael burton 1 on 20/02/2012 01:57:53

      #5970
      michael burton 1
      Participant
        @michaelburton1
        #85299
        Springbok
        Participant
          @springbok

          Hi michael

          Was it your Tich you were working on. tapping 7BA in stainless can be tricky, use lots of cutting oil, a starter or first taper tap, slowly turn in a tap, about 1/8th of a turn then reverse this helps clear swarf, in stainless you should hear a slight click, continue doing same untill through. If you just try and turn tap all the way through without doing this will lead to dissaster. then use next tap. Heating will help expand the work but will alter the structure of the metal and will need to be retempered. you do not say what the component is, how complicated or if it could be just scrapped and start again.

          Bob

          #85320
          MICHAEL WILLIAMS
          Participant
            @michaelwilliams41215

            Hi Michael B ,

            Generally speaking ordinary red heat will soften a carbon steel tap completely and have almost no effect on a HSS one . Having said that there do seem to be some , supposedly , HSS taps around which go brittle at red heat – I've never yet worked that one out .

            There is always a choice between carbon steel and HSS when buying taps . HSS taps cut difficult metals easier but carbon steel ones are easier to remove when things go wrong . Personally I always buy HSS taps now and try to use tapping methods which make breakage unlikely in most cases .

            MikeW

            #85331
            michael burton 1
            Participant
              @michaelburton1

              hi to you both yeah it was the tich just a rod, i was going back and forth hardly any movement but it grabbed on the wind out. and if i was to scrap it (i was seriously considering it) i would of had to remake a few parts and fourtunly then it was a carbon steel tap im glad i got it out so is the wife because im very inpatient normally but last night must off been a good day

              many thanks to you both for your replys

              #85347
              alan-lloyd
              Participant
                @alan-lloyd

                Hi Michael, I was taught that carbon taps and dies were only for cleaning or clearing threads, buy good quality hss taps and dies use the correct cutting compound and always clear the thread, half a turn forward and one complete turn back. I personally think carbon taps and dies are a waste of money.

                Good luck Alan

                #85348
                michael burton 1
                Participant
                  @michaelburton1

                  hi alan il bear that in mind and when i get the money as i have to buy a new one i will buy hss

                  #85357
                  Terry Lane
                  Participant
                    @terrylane
                    Posted by alan lloyd 3 on 20/02/2012 19:15:37:

                    Hi Michael, I was taught that carbon taps and dies were only for cleaning or clearing threads, buy good quality hss taps and dies use the correct cutting compound and always clear the thread, half a turn forward and one complete turn back. I personally think carbon taps and dies are a waste of money.

                    Good luck Alan

                    'fraid I must disagree – a good quality carbon tap will give you a better cut in most any material than what a HHS one will. HHS are called 'heavy handed' taps in my workshop.

                    #85359
                    michael burton 1
                    Participant
                      @michaelburton1

                      hmm carbon hss cheap dear i dont know il see what my pocket can afford when i come to buying a new one

                      #85380
                      Kevin Davie
                      Participant
                        @kevindavie28200

                        I have hade this problem on two occasions. 304 s/s part with a M4 HSS tap broken in a blind hole.

                        No problem. All you need is time. The broken tap is dissolve with phosphoric acid, the rust treatment

                        products work fine. A small amount in the hole and change it each day for about a week.

                        regards Kevin

                        #85413
                        Jon
                        Participant
                          @jon

                          I'll second that Tel a respectable carbon tap usually cut better tha good HSS taps.

                          One thing that i always feared was tapping 6 to 9BA in a hard metals at least 6 times the depth. Always used HSS though and lock up within 1/32 of a rev, took ages. I used to constantly swap second, starter and bottoming taps, it made it a little easier.

                          Using cutting oil or similar may be beneficial, other times its not, suck it and see.

                          The last two years i have replaced my taps with the machine spiral taps with red, blue, yellow bands, they cut great in everything but expensive.

                          I normally had to break up the tap in the hole.

                          #85421
                          David Blunn
                          Participant
                            @davidblunn56158

                            Hi there, just to add to the debate, I have read that in gunsmithing circles (hi value workpieces and small taps) they use carbon taps so that WHEN you break one it is so brittle it can be hit with a punch and shattered and the pieces picked out. They also have a keener edge than HSS but not as durable.

                            Regards, Dave

                            #85447
                            M0BND
                            Participant
                              @m0bnd

                              Mmmmm, hand taps or machine taps? Either way I would always recommend HSS. I would also recommend drilling 0.1mm bigger than recommended in any stainless steel that is austenitic (316, 303, 304 etc…) as it allows more clearance and less material to cut – just need to go careful if a gauged size is required.

                              for example an M3 tapped hole in 316 stainless steel – I will ALWAYS drill 2.6 diameter hole and use quality cutting oil/compound and HSS tap.

                              And, yes the material would have changed by heating it up. Only really matters in critical parts though.

                              Edited By Andrew Sherman on 22/02/2012 12:30:15

                              #85451
                              Jon
                              Participant
                                @jon

                                David you can do that with HSS. No idea who wrote the book may be some back street bodger.

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