Colchester Headstock Sleeve

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Colchester Headstock Sleeve

This topic has 24 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 16 February 2019 at 02:24 by Hopper.

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27 August 2018 at 14:49 #369285
Alan Waddington 2
Participant
@alanwaddington2
My Student 1800 was missing the oft misplaced tapered Headstock bush for turning between centres. I bought one off ebay a few years back and popped it on a shelf…….came to use it today and of course it’s the wrong size .

Questions are.

A- Does anyone have the correct one lying around they wish to sell? Or know where i might obtain one.

B- Any idea’s what the one i have is off. Dimensions are 1.622” at the fat end. 1.500” at the thin end. 2.490” Long. With a 3mt oil upt middle.

There are a few on ebay, but at least two which are advertised for my machine, clearly are not, so i’m a bit wary, twice bitten and all that.

The hole in my headstock measures 1.766”,bit awkward to measure the far end hole, but approx 1.675” with the bush being around the same length as the one i have.
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27 August 2018 at 14:49 #19057
Alan Waddington 2
Participant
@alanwaddington2
27 August 2018 at 15:31 #369290
Simon Williams 3
Participant
@simonwilliams3
Now here's a knotty little riddle.

My Bantam 2 has a bastard size taper up the head stock, which is rumoured to be MT4.5, or some such. It seems Mr Colchester didn't want us buying standard fittings so he made the head stock a funny size, though it may be something to do with the size of the bearings carrying the head stock. Mr Lathes.co.uk has got some comments thereon.

Anyway I'd have assumed that your Student was the same, but it can't be. I made a bush for my Bantam, but it's 1.517 – 1.362 by 3.07 ins long.

However, when I bought the lathe I was given what was supposed to be the "right" bush, which is much too large. Squirrel that I am I've kept it, and it is 1.809 – 1.656 x 3.036 long. All these dimensions measured with calipers, so somewhere handy but not precise. While those dimensions aren't exactly what you've shown above, they look something useful.

You are welcome to try the second bush and see if it is what you are looking for, send me a PM with your address and advise so on here and I'll pop it in the post next week.

Hope this works! Rgds Simon
27 August 2018 at 15:43 #369291
Alan Waddington 2
Participant
@alanwaddington2
Posted by Simon Williams 3 on 27/08/2018 15:31:55:

Now here's a knotty little riddle.

My Bantam 2 has a bastard size taper up the head stock, which is rumoured to be MT4.5, or some such. It seems Mr Colchester didn't want us buying standard fittings so he made the head stock a funny size, though it may be something to do with the size of the bearings carrying the head stock. Mr Lathes.co.uk has got some comments thereon.

Anyway I'd have assumed that your Student was the same, but it can't be. I made a bush for my Bantam, but it's 1.517 – 1.362 by 3.07 ins long.

However, when I bought the lathe I was given what was supposed to be the "right" bush, which is much too large. Squirrel that I am I've kept it, and it is 1.809 – 1.656 x 3.036 long. All these dimensions measured with calipers, so somewhere handy but not precise. While those dimensions aren't exactly what you've shown above, they look something useful.

You are welcome to try the second bush and see if it is what you are looking for, send me a PM with your address and advise so on here and I'll pop it in the post next week.

Hope this works! Rgds Simon

That’s very kind of you Simon. Interestingly the dimensions you have given are remarkably close to one on ebay. I suppose the slightly larger fat end could account for the bush sticking out a bit. Will drop you a PM.
27 August 2018 at 16:54 #369301
duncan webster 1
Participant
@duncanwebster1
When I had a Chipmaster with the taper thing missing I convinced myself it was Jarno, which is as

**LINK**

Doesn't help you in finding one of course, but I never needed one, for between centres just chuck a bit of bar i the 3 jaw and turn a point on it
27 August 2018 at 17:06 #369306
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
It sounds like it might be the 'thin end' of an MT5 taper. 1.5" is the fat end of MT4.5 so it can't be that.

This thread suggests the Student has an MT5 taper: /www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=104715

If that's the case you just need an MT5 to MT3 reducing sleeve – or an MT5 centre.

Neil
27 August 2018 at 17:38 #369312
Nigel Bennett
Participant
@nigelbennett69913
Yes, it's 4.5MT. It's fairly common, as the Boxford X10 series lathes (280, 330, etc) with the D1-3" camlock have them, as well as the Chipmaster and Bantam lathes. I don't think the Harrison D1-3" camlock lathes are like that.

I suppose the thinking was that 4MT was too restricting and 5MT too big for the spindle.
27 August 2018 at 17:47 #369314
Alan Waddington 2
Participant
@alanwaddington2
Good call Neil, just tried a 5mt -1mt reducing sleeve i had lying about and it seems to fit perfectly. No good for my purposes, but proves a point. 👍
27 August 2018 at 18:44 #369323
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
The thanks are due to Les Jones 1
28 August 2018 at 00:22 #369368
John McNamara
Participant
@johnmcnamara74883
Hi Alan

My lathe did not come with spindle taper plugs

I made two, one Morse and one NC taper at the same time. I did not use a chuck or centres.

I posted posted the method here here a while back.

**LINK**

Regards
John
28 August 2018 at 14:16 #369421
Alan Waddington 2
Participant
@alanwaddington2
Posted by John McNamara on 28/08/2018 00:22:18:

Hi Alan

My lathe did not come with spindle taper plugs

I made two, one Morse and one NC taper at the same time. I did not use a chuck or centres.

I posted posted the method here here a while back.

**LINK**

Regards
John

Great Job John, thanks for posting…….however i seem to be getting further from the job in hand evey time i go in the workshop, so this time i will be buying rather than making.

No idea if it’s just me, but nearly every job i do requires me to either make or buy something to fix an issue before i can start the job i initially wanted to do.
28 August 2018 at 19:45 #369456
Simon Williams 3
Participant
@simonwilliams3
Alan – I've sent you a PM.

Rgds Simon
31 August 2018 at 14:11 #369799
Alan Waddington 2
Participant
@alanwaddington2
Just to update this thread, Simon kindly sent me the bush he had, and it fitted perfectly. (Thanks Simon)The taper is indeed 5mt, but the fat end is larger than a drill sleeve so it sticks out of the headstock a little way.

I therefore have a bush going spare. (My ebay purchase)

So if anyone can identify it, and make use of it, the same deal as Simon did for me will apply.

Let me know your address and i will post out at my cost.

If it suits your needs, you make a minimum donation to charity of £10

If it does not fit, you return to me, or someone else who’s machine it may fit.

These tend to be advertised between £30 and £70 on ebay

Edited By Alan Waddington 2 on 31/08/2018 14:12:17
14 February 2019 at 22:21 #396336
Richard –
Participant
@richard-3
Hi Alan, have you still got the bush, my Harrison is reported to be 41/2 MT

thanks

Richard
14 February 2019 at 23:07 #396344
Alan Waddington 2
Participant
@alanwaddington2
Posted by Richard – on 14/02/2019 22:21:12:

Hi Alan, have you still got the bush, my Harrison is reported to be 41/2 MT

thanks

Richard

Hi Richard, yes still on a shelf, PM me your address and i will send it to you.
14 February 2019 at 23:40 #396345
Pete Rimmer
Participant
@peterimmer30576
Without drawing it up in CAD your adapter sound awfully close to #13 Jarno taper.
14 February 2019 at 23:58 #396347
David Standing 1
Participant
@davidstanding1
Posted by Pete Rimmer on 14/02/2019 23:40:04:

Without drawing it up in CAD your adapter sound awfully close to #13 Jarno taper.

There are three different bush sizes referred to in this thread, which one are you referring to?
15 February 2019 at 08:30 #396361
Richard –
Participant
@richard-3
Alan sent pm
15 February 2019 at 10:47 #396386
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
Jarno tapers all have the same taper, 2 degrees 15 minutes.

A 5MT / 3MT sleeve should be available from someone like Warco or Chester, since the BH600 and Craftsman are 5MT Mandrels, and came with a sleeve. Possibly, some of their successors did as well.

Howard
15 February 2019 at 13:00 #396398
Pete Rimmer
Participant
@peterimmer30576
Posted by Howard Lewis on 15/02/2019 10:47:44:

Jarno tapers all have the same taper, 2 degrees 15 minutes.

Howard

Are you sure? I'm no Rachel Riley but I get 2.8664 degrees included angle.
15 February 2019 at 17:23 #396420
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
Peter!

Quite right

Taper according to Engineers Edge is 1;20 which I make 2.8624052 degrees (2 degrees 51.44314 minutes)

Shouldn't have relied on my memory, from the last time that I turned one!

Howard
15 February 2019 at 18:04 #396425
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
PS

Would be very surprised if the mandrel taper was a Jarno. Within my limited knowledge , would expect most Lathe mandrels to be a Morse Taper.

Pity that the Morse Taper varies from size to size, unlike the Jarno.

Howard
15 February 2019 at 18:51 #396440
Pete Rimmer
Participant
@peterimmer30576
One of my lathes is Jarno 12. I wish I could find an adapter for it.
16 February 2019 at 00:34 #396498
Frankiethepill
Participant
@frankiethepill
My old Bantam mk1 takes a Headstock sleeve adapter MT4 – 3 (supplied by RDG) and all seems to fit well. Total cost under a tenner..
16 February 2019 at 02:24 #396500
Hopper
Participant
@hopper
With the difference between a Morse and Jarno taper being in most cases within .001" to .002" per inch, it's quite possible that the one will fit the other in a short application like the headstock collar, without the mismatch being noticed?
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