Web-sites Going AWOL

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Twice in the last twenty minutes or so, I tried to refer to two separate sites in connection with threads on this site.

For both, the system returned a message saying the site could not be found.

They were the Traction Talk forum, and that for the engineering parts-supplier Townsend Bearings – which is based in Bridport, the town that is also home to the Stuart (and other) castings foundry.

Anyone else found this problem with these or similar sites, or can suggest why they won't work? Anything else I look up seems fine.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Goind AWOL? Try Going!

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Both still there. Best to use Google (or other) search on the name when the site can't be found message pops up.

Probably something obscure computer or network side getting in the way of old links. I've had this problem with links I saved several years ago and not used in the interim. I imagine the links you picked up from the forum were via someones stored list rather than picked up live.

These days I tend to grab links from live windows just in case.

Clive

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

**LINK**

https://www.townsendbridport.co.uk

**LINK**

https://www.tractiontalkforum.com

I don’t know what links you were using, Nigel … but both of those ^^^ seem to be live today.

… As Clive says: Addresses do change

MichaelG.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Michael, the green "townsend bearings" visit site does not work from your link for me. TT is OK. as is Townsend's blasting site

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by JasonB on 27/10/2019 19:44:13:

Michael, the green "townsend bearings" visit site does not work from your link for me. TT is OK. as is Townsend's blasting site

.

Mmmm … sorry, I hadn’t spotted that.

I wonder if they still do bearings ?

MichaelG.

.

Edit: strangely, some [but not all] of of the pages here are working:

http://townsendbearings.co.uk/

http://townsendbearings.co.uk/pdf/BearingsCR.pdf

Perhaps the site is in the process of being migrated 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 27/10/2019 21:04:43

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

All the links above seem to work fine for me.

George.

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Sometimes an ISP's DNS server has a problem. If you think a website isn't working downforeveryoneorjustme does as its name suggests.

BrianG

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Of the two Michael gives, the first fails, the second works – but it opens only the bearing catalogue, a pdf file.

The first link opens the list of TT's internal links, but these simply return you to the browser and message that the site cannot be found

Trying to find them by typing the overall web-site name given at the foot of that, fails – the system cannot find it that way either.

Annoyingly, trying to use any link from within a site, such as this one, closes that host, and you have to re-open it!

I tried the Traction Talk forum again from the browser, to be met by this:

"This page can’t be displayed

Turn on TLS 1.0, TLS 1.1, and TLS 1.2 in Advanced settings and try connecting to https://www.tractiontalkforum.com again. If this error persists, it is possible that this site uses an unsupported protocol or cipher suite such as RC4 (link for the details), which is not considered secure. Please contact your site administrator.

"

That is venturing into operating-system territory best left alone by an ordinary computer user like me, who does not understand what "unsupported protocol or cipher suites" are, nor what happens if you adjust those settings.

I should add Townsend Bearings have had problems with their revised web-site but I'd have thought it repaired by now. When I first spotted this, in attempting to find if anyone West of Southampton stills sells engineering components (after Weymouth's Eurofasteners went out of business), I had to ring the company to see if it is still trading. It is!

I have used Traction Talk in the past, and I think I have an account on it, but clearly, it is not available to me even as read-only.

Just a thought… My PC uses WIN 7 Pro, which Mickeysoft tells me it will soon cease to support, so tough. That's like a Ford garage refusing to service an Escort. Might these sites have been re-written on WIN-10 based computers, and if so would that render them unreadable to any previous version of Windows?

+++

I propose a new form of business and personal communication in which the data is written or printed alphanumerically on a thin, perhaps cellulose-based, substrate, packed for protection and privacy into a sleeve of similar material and delivered to the recipient, at a modest fixed rate irrespective of distance – the outer sleeve readily marked by a self-adhesive label as proof of payment. Whilst not as "instant" as electronics, and whilst not completely risk-free, it would obviate all the problems and breakdowns inherent in long strings of electric pulses invented and released un-tested by some money-mad conglomerate in California, and prone to interference by the malevolent criminal or Foreign Power!

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Have you tried with a different browser?

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Could be a red herring, but it looks to me like the Townsend links that work are townsendbearings.co.uk and the ones that fail are http://www.townsendbearings.co.uk

Possibly someone messed up an website update?

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 29/10/2019 17:24:56:

+++

I propose a new form of business and personal communication in which the data is written or printed alphanumerically on a thin, perhaps cellulose-based, substrate, packed for protection and privacy into a sleeve of similar material and delivered to the recipient, at a modest fixed rate irrespective of distance – the outer sleeve readily marked by a self-adhesive label as proof of payment. Whilst not as "instant" as electronics, and whilst not completely risk-free, it would obviate all the problems and breakdowns inherent in long strings of electric pulses invented and released un-tested by some money-mad conglomerate in California, and prone to interference by the malevolent criminal or Foreign Power!

I think that system may be prone to interference by a malevolent use of steam or scissors and by the redaction pen.😉

Edited By V8Eng on 29/10/2019 20:47:51

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 27/10/2019 18:27:32:

Twice in the last twenty minutes or so, I tried to refer to two separate sites in connection with threads on this site.

For both, the system returned a message saying the site could not be found.

…

or can suggest why they won't work? Anything else I look up seems fine.

Could be your router is corrupted.

When you first ask for a website, a query is made that turns the human friendly website name into a network address, which is a completely incomprehensible binary number. As resolving names to addresses takes a long time, binary addresses are remembered by your computer and router. Strange things happen if a cache is corrupted by a power surge, or overheating. Not unknown for routers to be located on a sunny window sill or balanced on a radiator!

The computer's cache of addresses is refreshed every time it's rebooted and is unlikely to cause other than short-lived problems. But the cache in a router may not be refreshed for several months, and because most entries may be intact, it may not be obvious the router needs tlc. Therefore try this:

1. Shutdown your computer and turn the power off
2. Power off your router and leave it off for several minutes. Long enough to cool down.
3. Power the router back on an wait for its status lights to show it has reconnected to the internet. This should clear the cache and build a new one.
4. Power on the computer, login, start the browser, sacrifice a virgin, and check a few web site.

'Have you tried turning it off and on again' is a computer joke, except it really works! It resets everything to a known state. Less well known Routers are also computers that benefit from a restart sometimes. Worth a try, especially as a corrupt router creates Windows problems that not even Microsoft can fix.

Dave

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

the bit about tls etc would date that page to the early days of https which Google was pushing but 5 years or so ago not all browsers had been updated. Looks as tho an old web site hasn’t been updated correctly – possibly Traction Talk was also being updated as seems fine for me and I operate with a fairly locked down Firefox browser

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Thank you!

Dave:

In fact I do that by default, switching off the power to both the computer and the router when I finish a session (obviously having closed the computer down properly).

The router sits on a shelf well away from any heat source or from the window, which faces North anyway.

Frances:

My PC is not very old, and it's the same one I have viewed both those web-sites on previously, with no problems.

Just a thought… I have been trying these from my main account. I wonder if my secondary one will work.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

No. Just tried it. Same results.

Obviously this PC will find most web-sites I try, but no longer links to others; and there is no pattern or evident reason to it.

I can only assume it's something to do with the way these sites are written, so they are no longer compatible with my computer, as they used to work. (Hence my asking if it might be a WIN 10 – 7 mis-match, without knowing what the sites' writers use.)

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 29/10/2019 17:24:56:

Of the two Michael gives, the first fails, the second works – but it opens only the bearing catalogue, a pdf file.

The first link opens the list of TT's internal links, but these simply return you to the browser and message that the site cannot be found

[…]

.

Nigel,

Just to be clear … That ^^^ is exactly what I was trying to demonstrate to you.

The first of those does work … but the hyperlinks within it appear to be dead.

The second ‘does exactly what it says on the tin’.

… Quite where this leaves us, when the parent site “cannot be found” is beyond me.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: I haven’t used Internet Explorer for a while; but you might try this page:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/967897/cannot-access-some-websites-in-internet-explorer

or this

https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/956196/internet-explorer-cannot-display-the-webpage-error

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 30/10/2019 08:29:49

[Maurice TaylorParticipant @mauricetaylor82093]

I find it easier to use an iPad or Android tablet for web browsing or eBay etc,just use computer for things that need it.The links on the thread opened OK using iPad using mobile phone as a hotspot.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Maurice Taylor on 30/10/2019 08:55:47:

[…]

The links on the thread opened OK using iPad using mobile phone as a hotspot.

 

.

I am astonished, Maurice

Like you, I find the iPad most convenient for web stuff … but I have not yet managed to open any of the links provided on the list at:

http://townsendbearings.co.uk/

… Can you please provide an example of one that works ?

Thanks

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 30/10/2019 09:41:41

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Someone with more aptitude than I possess might find a hint here:

**LINK**

https://sitecheck.sucuri.net/results/townsendbearings.co.uk

But it’s beyond me.

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 29/10/2019 22:45:07:

Thank you!

Dave:

In fact I do that by default, switching off the power to both the computer and the router when I finish a session (obviously having closed the computer down properly).

Not necessarily a good idea to switch off the router, every evening, especially if you have a poor connection. After a hard reset they typically 'experiment' with different connection speeds, find one that works well, then gradually increase it to find the optimum balance between data transfer and data loss. This can take some time, then the default speed is set at your ISP. I found a tech post from BT that said this takes three days.

This may no longer be the case, but I would suggest leaving the router connected for at least three days once in a while to make sure you have the best possible connection speed.

Neil

[Maurice TaylorParticipant @mauricetaylor82093]

Hi.Michael G. ,Try using your phone as a hotspot with your iPad,if it works ,the problem will be with your home router settings.

Maurice

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Just something to note about turning your router on and off on a regular basis – it could cause your speed to be lower than the optimum, as the connection takes time to 'settle'.

To quote from the Plusnet website " It's best to leave it on, even at night. When you switch it off and on a lot, it makes it look like your line's unstable. When that happens, your telephone exchange will temporarily make your speed lower because it thinks your line can't cope with anything higher. "

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Did some digging to see if these websites have anything in common. Technically not much.

• tractiontalk is hosted via a Web Hosting Platform managed by Plesk, the Web Server is NGINX, and the Operating System is Linux.
• townsendbearings is hosted via a Web Hosting Platform managed by WinPlesk, the Web Server is Microsoft IIS/10.0 and the Operating System is Microsoft Windows Server.
• tractiontalk has a valid security certificate and supports TLS 1.2 (contradicting one of Nigel's peculiar error messages.)
• townsendbearings is a plain http website with no encryption.

Both should work. However looking more closely inside, the websites do have something in common. They both appear to be 'work in progress', that is the site owners are either half-way through a technical update, or haven't spotted the job is incomplete. For example:

• Connecting to tractiontalk's front page has been converted from http: to https:, ie the connection is encrypted. This is best practice, but unfortunately the front page itself contains many unencrypted links to other material hosted on the same website. This is plain wrong, a website should be either encrypted or not. A mixture is likely due to a conversion in progress, or possibly the owner hasn't realised all the links need to be fixed, not just the entry point. This may be related to another recent change, which is users now have to login to see the forum.
• townsendbearings.co.uk have a different problem. Their site is unencrypted, but most of the internal links connect to http://www.townsendbearings.co.uk Unfortunately, http://www.townsendbearings.co.uk hasn't been registered: maybe the links should point to www.townsendbearings.co.uk Could be this is a work in progress. http://www.tractiontalkforum.com and tractiontalkforum.com are registered to TractionTalk as synonyms, and it's likely townsendbearings are trying to arrange the same. Registering a domain name is paperwork, whilst changing website internals is a computer job. Maybe the two tasks haven't come together yet.

There's a good case for assuming Nigel has bumped into a couple of duff websites and all he needs do is wait until they sort themselves out. However, as Nigel has a track record of odd computer symptoms, I wonder if something more sinister is going on. I like faults that obviously identify themselves, ideally with smoke signals! Computers don't always cooperate with straightforward symptoms, instead behaving illogically. It may be necessary to eliminate more possibilities:

1. Faulty memory. Try following these instructions. Testing may take several hours.
2. Corrupt or Failing Hard Drive or SSD. Test as described here. Also takes a long time…

If the hardware tests cleanly, other possibilities include software corruption of applications, drivers, or the operating system itself (mostly fixed by bothersome removing and re-installing) OR malware. Probably easier to test for malware first, but that's a complex subject in itself. It may be worth taking the computer to an expert who will have the tools and skills necessary to get the job done quickly. Many small businesses doing this work locally, and Curry's seem to be offering a no fix no fee service. (I haven't read the small print!)

If anyone's interested in the hacking details, the tools I used to check the websites were run from the Linux Command Line: dig hostname, curl -I hostname, and nmap -O -v ipAddress. I also used Firefox's Inspector function to look into the HTML innards of pages downloaded from the two websites, lots of warning messages, mostly harmless!

Dave

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