A chemistry question

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

a couple of my fellow club members have made a rather splendid track cleaner. It uses a pressure washer pump to blast a mix of water and some kind of solvent at the rails. It works a treat, but it has dire effects on the signalling, which relies on measuring the resistance between the rails. Using plain water isn’t as effective but doesn’t stop the signals working. Most cleaning solutions seems to contain ionic surfactants, and I guess the clue is is the name, ions conduct electricity.

I’ve suggested we paint the rails with Gunk, then blast it off with plain water. To save me going out to buy some anyone know if it will conduct electricity? I’ve attached the data sheet. Or any other ideas?

 

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

That looks like kerosene with a few oil souble additives, so it shouldn’t be conductive.

[Dick HParticipant @dickh]

Sorry is this the formula for Gunk or what they sprayed on the rails? Nothing in the above formula should cause that sort of chaos. What is in the concoction they use as track cleaner?

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

The data sheet is for gunk. I’ll find out what the problem stuff is on Sunday and try and find a data sheet fof it

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

If it worked, it’s probably ‘alkaline degreaser’ which is much more effective at removing oil and grease residue than Gunk – it’d be a much less damaging product to introduce to the environment than paraffin.

If you could you make a ‘box’ for the P/W lance to concentrate the jet onto the rails you might be able to use plain water..

 

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Have you considered a biodegradable citrus cleaner like the ones used for cleaning oily bicycle chains?

[duncan webster 1]

On 7 August 2026 at 19:19 duncan webster 1 Said:

[…]   Most cleaning solutions seems to contain ionic surfactants, and I guess the clue is is the name, ions conduct electricity.   […]

You are right, of course, Duncan … although I had never thought much about it !

A quick Google search for “electrical conductivity of cleaning products” will provide many happy hours of reading !

MichaelG.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

I’d suggest that the detergent is probably helping to retain moisture between the rails and sleepers and allowing current to pass. Might get better in the current heatwaves, then get worse when there’s any precipitation.

Solution could be more thorough rinsing?

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

The problem of oil contamination on rail was a local issue 10.25″ gauge and I started to draw up an idea that would use 2 x  4.5″ grinders with wire cup brushes lightly spring mounted and on a trolley that also carried a 2.5Kw generator for power. One might even have used a small traction motor to provide the motive power for the unit.

Just a thought.  Noel

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

According to the empty container I found at the track it’s https://jovs.co.uk/product/traffic-film-remover-500-strong-5-liters/

There isn’t a data sheet on the interweb, I’ve emailed Jov, but no reply yet. Lots of different brands for TFR (Traffic Film Remover), some claim to be non caustic, all contain detergent. It appears the detergents work better in high ph (caustic) environment. According to interweb, you can get non ionic surfactants, but suggestion is they are not as effective

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I find it very distressing that Joy can openly sell a product like that without widely publishing MSDS/ COSHH details !

MichaelG.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

As they appear to be an industrial supplier they are legally required to provide a a Safety Data Sheet (SDS formerly MSDS) under UK REACH legislation. Most suppliers provide these on their website. Not doing so does not give a good impression.
It would be interesting to see what they say if Duncan requested a SDS from them.

Robert.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

emailed them on Sunday. No reply as yet. I’ll give it a few days the ring them

[JuddyParticipant @juddy]

Similar product here: https://greylandlimited-static.mytradespace.co.uk/uploads/52737a82c806f4613213a873eefe0a04/SDS-37-03-Concentrated-Traffic-Film-Remover-001-C.pdf

These traffic film removers require careful handling

 

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