Web-sites Going AWOL

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I did wonder if BTInternet's "cookie" filters were the problem.

When you start it, it usually askes if you want to turn off the Functional then "Targetted" (Urrrghhh!) "Cookies.

I normally leave the Functional ones ON, switch the ad-agencies' ones Off. (Why are they named after biscuits by the way?)

S I tried that now, and the both the router and computer had been switched off all night. I have no idea if it made a difference because this was one occasion when the cookie switch did not appear!

'

Typing "traction talk forum" in Search revealed the site on Google's list, complete with its sub-sections, but anything further cannot be found. it's as if the site itself does not exist but its name is still in Google's index.

'

Typing "townsend bearings" revealed www. townsendbridport. co. uk.

This gave a very different result. It opens a rather artistic page divided into 4 business divisions, including the shop (Townsend Bearings itself). Each division has its own contact details.

Significantly the "View Site" button for the shop is green and does not work (it opens Yahoo, which promptly says the address can't be found). The corresponding button for each of the other divisions is yellow and does work.

So it looks as if the business has comprehensively changed its Internet name and possibly ISP, but its own link to the shop on its new site is faulty. Luckily the contact details given are also e-mail and telephone numbers.

'

So that might be the bearings stockist sorted: the site is not readable because it is faulty. Which is a nuisance because it contains (or did contain) loads of long tables of transmission-component specifications.

What of Traction Talk? I think that is lost to me. As a test I tried another voluntary forum – UK Caving, devoted to my other main hobby – and that opened immediately from the Search bar. I can only assume some web-sites are not compatible with all ISPs, operating-system editions and settings, or security software.

I am very reluctant to interfere with computer operating settings because I know very little about them, so am likely to cause more problems and solve none.

I have only a broadband-linked PC, no alternative Internet instruments. My portable 'phone is a basic model and whatever its "3G" appellation means, I don't think it be linked to the Internet…

… Besides, I can't imagine displaying a complicated table of bearing specifications or O-ring fits on a screen smaller than a bank card!

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Thank you Dave,

for the comprehensive answer.

I used to find all sorts of problems at work that other computers could not refresh, and that on a very tightly-managed, very secure system! Perhaps I ought have a retirement occupation as a test-consultant finding obscure snags the IT professionals need to correct.

I encountered another site giving that unable-to-find message with its recommendation to turn on three settings called "TLS". I found that on my PC they are already ON.

So… now what?

Luckily I found a Microsoft site (No I can't recall its name or location) that explained that as the original "not found" message hints at; fairly recently MS changed Internet Explorer to overcome a flaw in the security method once common in web-sites.

I don't pretend to understand it fully but essentially, the basic message is that IE will block a site still using that security system.

MS does give by-pass instructions, with stark warnings of Armageddon if you make a mistake. They give two alternative processes. The first is a simple settings tick-box called SLS, presumably simple to reverse. The second is for the professional only, with registry back-ups and operating-system changes.

I tried the SLS switch – no change, so I reversed it.

++

For the router, I recall its supplied instructions say leave it turned on, but only for unspecified "up-dates". Understandably perhaps, nothing about amnesia and taking days to recover. I could leave it on – moving it from a distribution-board "in the cloud" (of leads!) that also feeds the PC and printers – to see what happens.

I don't like leaving electric / electronic appliances live when I not using them, and indeed have not installed a new caller-ID telephone I'd bought because it too apparently needs mains power all the time.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Found another: Metals4U. In that case, when trying to reply to a materials enquiry on this forum.

A few others picked at random all worked.

Acting on advice above I have now moved the router's PSU to its own mains socket so I can leave that on even when I turn the computer off. I had a worrying moment when nothing happened, until I found the router itself has a very discreet little ON/OFF button I must have pressed by accident.

It is beginning to look as if the real problem is that change within Internet Explorer, meaning web-sites not modified to suit, won't work. How many more are going to fail? At this rate Microsoft will ensure no-one can use the Internet for anything beyond Facebook!

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

I was under the impression that MS were in the process of effectively removing IE (previously known as Internet Exploder) in favour of Edge – maybe downloading the free Firefox browser would help solve your problems – I presume that you have checked that your roter is set to use your ISP for DNS queries (this is alterable in the router) and as a precaution you have set up a password if your router is one that comes with a universal default (eg admin / password)

Edited By Frances IoM on 31/10/2019 08:37:39

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 30/10/2019 23:01:14:

It is beginning to look as if the real problem is that change within Internet Explorer, meaning web-sites not modified to suit, won't work. How many more are going to fail? At this rate Microsoft will ensure no-one can use the Internet for anything beyond Facebook!

For once that is not the case. The website in question doesn't work when viewed with Firefox running on Linux, no connection with Microsoft Internet Explorer.

Microsoft do,however, have a habit of introducing new features to their website creating software which don't comply with the international standards which they themselves have helped to write!

Russell

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

That doesn't surprise me, about Microsoft.

Having used MS Windows and associated software (as a user, not programmer) from MS-DOS to a short foray into WIN 10, I have seen their quality steadily rise to XP and contemporary Office applications (though these still had glaring faults), then drop significantly. WIN-10 was an utter disaster – a cheap-looking, very gimmicky, clumsy presentation hard to navigate, starved versions of the useful applications, and loss of all existing web-site registrations. I reverted to WIN 7 Pro, and it took me several hours to repair the damage. At least I'd been careful to have used the "Custom install" instead of the "INSTALL NOW" that MS wanted

The problem seems to be arising is that apart from individual site faults, some web-site owners may not realise MS has effectively barred access to many potential viewers, so have not modified the sites to suit.

I wonder if MS' aim is to strengthen their monopoly and future sales by ensuring the only third-party software that works, is that written only for the latest MS system, irrespective of any agreed standards.

Already I have been caught by a sneaky commercial link between MS and Adobe (does MS own Adobe?), causing me very annoying problems. This uses the locked file-type indicated by the 'x' suffix, whose editing needs a converter only available (as far as I know) from Adobe, rented at nearly £400/year.

What is to stop MS going for full rental rather than up-front sales, and ensuring the only software and files that work are those fully compatible only with its latest version of Windows?

Faulty web-sites apart, I fear it will become increasingly difficult to use the Internet for its intended purpose – obtaining genuine information. And so, increasingly difficult in any way at all to find any information or help you need or want, thanks to so many organisations now fully of the Digital side of the Great Family We-All.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 30/10/2019 18:20:54:

…

I used to find all sorts of problems at work that other computers could not refresh, and that on a very tightly-managed, very secure system! Perhaps I ought have a retirement occupation as a test-consultant finding obscure snags the IT professionals need to correct.

I encountered another site giving that unable-to-find message with its recommendation to turn on three settings called "TLS". I found that on my PC they are already ON.

So… now what?

Luckily I found a Microsoft site (No I can't recall its name or location) that explained that as the original "not found" message hints at; fairly recently MS changed Internet Explorer to overcome a flaw in the security method once common in web-sites.

I don't pretend to understand it fully but essentially, the basic message is that IE will block a site still using that security system.

…

I tried the SLS switch – no change, so I reversed it.

++

For the router, I recall its supplied instructions say leave it turned on, but only for unspecified "up-dates". …

I don't like leaving electric / electronic appliances live when I not using them, and indeed have not installed a new caller-ID telephone I'd bought because it too apparently needs mains power all the time.

Curiously my start in computing was in testing due to a strange ability to find bugs others missed! You might have missed an opportunity to make a career out of breaking computers like I did.

Anyway, I think the once common problem you're describing is a group caused during development of Internet encryption. It didn't arrive fully functional and secure, rather it developed through several painful steps. The first encrypted web-sites used SSL2.0. After several hundred million people were happily using it, a number of vulnerabilities were discovered and SSL3.0 was issued, but that turned out to be faulty too. As the internet expanded more problems were discovered and a major upgrade called TLS started to replace SSL starting in 1999. TLS changed enough to be incompatible with SSL and has itself gone through a series of upgrades, currently up to version 1.3

Here's the problem: in order to communicate securely, website and browser must both support compatible encryption. When a major component like encryption is upgraded it can take several years to make the change. Not everyone is keen to upgrade, and no-one likes spending money if it can be avoided. SSL3.0 ran in parallel with TLS until 2014 allowing 15 years for everyone to convert. During transition there was an ever decreasing need for some users to run SSL. In 2019, I would need an extremely good reason to connect to any internet website still using SSL because failing to change by now shows a negligent approach to security!

One way of getting into trouble is by embracing change too early and finding all the bugs, the other is to stick in the mud with an increasingly outdated system until it becomes incompatible.

Although your error message occurs if there's an SSL/TLS mismatch, I don't think it's causing your problem because tractionTalk is using TLS. Something else is causing the same symptom. Likewise, I don't think Internet Explorer is guilty either. Although Microsoft still support it, IE isn't being developed: it's being replaced by Microsoft Edge. If something changed on IE, it's probably only fixing a security hole you don't want. Although Microsoft were heavily fined in the past for breech of monopoly law by corralling users, IE is no longer a major Browser, down to about 6% this year and falling rapidly.

The history of your machine has been turbulent: upgrading to Windows 10 and reverting back to W7 is a major adventure. It's possible you have ended up with a slightly corrupt W7. Mending slightly mangled computers at work was easy: all data was stored on a server, so all that was necessary was to blow a new copy of the entire operating system on to the machine from the gold master disk. This contained a fully tested copy of the operating system, device drivers, standard applications, and all configuration settings. No one had to think! In comparison domestic systems are far more difficult: with limited support the owner has to diagnose faults and fix them without damaging data or anything else. Registry settings are horrible, and Malware is an unpleasant possibility too. Took me 3 days hard slog to fix my daughters computer when she got home from University. Might be easier to pay for a suspect machine to be checked professionally.

My mum likes turning everything off: she's green and thrifty. I had a hard time persuading her it's not a good idea to turn off devices like her TV and router that upgrade themselves overnight! What happens if you do is the device might fail because it's no longer compatible with base, or because a giant stack of upgrades builds up and the install times-out because it takes too long. Little and often is best.

Hope that helps,

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 31/10/2019 13:58:22

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

My e-mail list shows a message from Francis IOM, but it's not appeared here yet, advising MS may be replacing IE with Edge, and I try Firefox.

Thank you. I will!

I recall the name, Edge, WIN 10, but I can't remember trying to use it. Just a thought, perhaps that change was what had deleted my web-site registrations (about 6 or 7 I think).

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Maurice Taylor on 30/10/2019 10:06:55:

Hi.Michael G. ,Try using your phone as a hotspot with your iPad,if it works ,the problem will be with your home router settings.

Maurice

.

I have finally got round to tethering my Android phone with the iPad

Results are exactly as before … The Townsend list opens, but the links within it are dead.

http://townsendbearings.co.uk/

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 02/11/2019 00:07:50

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

Hi as Frances_IoM I’ve sent NO messages – I tend to find the system clunky tho I guess it does offer some protection, more important in the past, against spam –

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Sorry Francis – I should have written that more clearly.

I meant the e-mail list shows one from this forum, that you'd posted on it. Not from you directly.

A little correction to what I'd written a while back. The TownsendBridport site does show two divisions but only two, not all four, have Internet links.

Trying to find out something away from here, I discovered its site was "protected" in so far as it raised a message that my "browser is out-of-date". This is not the same as the problems I'd described above, whose error-messages refer to TLS settings.

[Author]

Posts