Saving the Planet … or is it ?

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

The latest silliness I have noted was the idea that there are going to be 2 periods in the day when you will not be allowed to charge an electric vehicle to avoid overloading the grid. One in the morning and one in the afternoon total about 7 hours.

Then when everyone has electrically powered heat pumps will they start dictating that they will also have to be switched off at peak demand times as well?

The other stupid thing is the disparity in the cost of a kWh of gas power and that of electric power. Electricity costs about 10 times as much as gas per kWh so if we have a gas hob and an electric kettle and want to save a bit of money we should ditch the electric kettle and use the gas hob to boil water for tea or coffee because even though it is less efficient and uses more kWh overall and is bad for the environment as a result it is a lot cheaper. The same is true for heat pumps. A heat pump system with a COP in the expected range may use half the kWh of a gas fired system but since the cost is ten times higher per kWh for electricity this means that the heat pump running cost will be 5 times higher than a gas fired boiler. These figures do not encourage people to change to a heat pump system so they will do everything they can to keep a gas fired system until the prices nudge people to go for heat pumps.

Martin C

[VicParticipant @vic]

We took up the offer of free Waitrose shopping bags over 10 years ago and are still using them. They are made from woven green nylon by the look of them and very durable.

On the topic of EV’s, wouldn’t many be charged at night at a lower tarif? At least for the 60% of motorists that have their own drive. Obviously if you’re out and about and need a charge that’s different.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Centralisation and economy of scale are often paradoxically wasteful. By simple example I tried buying bulk 25L disinfectants and found staff just chucked the stuff about and it was cheaper overall to go back to small containers.
Many will remember the days of local primary and junior schools where parents could walk kiddie there until they were old enough to take a bus into town for secondary education and an economy functional with only one parent working avoids all the travel to child care. We had the grocer van weekly around the village and the milk round and paper round, so it was only necessary for a once weekly trip for other essentials, which could be carried in a couple of string bags.
One car was a luxury and many found that unnecessary compared to now – 2 and 3 car families because it’s so essential you keep a spare. And because of traffic and parking fees in town everyone goes to a shopping centre and gets enticed with all sorts of unnecessary and tempting extras as well as the media showing takeaway coffee and bottled water on every show – the most nonsensical rip-offs to date.

This is because some economist has promoted GDP as a measure of a country's wealth and economic activity. If we each sold and bought 3 empty bottles from each other every day we could be the wealthiest nation..

pgk

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

There is a lot of grossly inaccurate guff about standby power consumption of various devises on the internet.

"On 6 January 2010 the European Commission (EC) Regulation No 1275/2008 came into force. The regulations mandate that from 6 January 2010 "off mode" and standby power for electrical and electronic household and office equipment shall not exceed 1W, "standby plus" power (providing information or status display in addition to possible reactivation function) shall not exceed 2W. Equipment must where appropriate provide off mode and/or standby mode when the equipment is connected to the mains power source. These figures were halved on 6 January 2013."

[ZanParticipant @zan]

It may be only 1 watt, but I bet there’s a lot more than 100 mil televisions alone on standby at the moment Perhaps a lot more. Just work that out.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Posted by Martin Connelly on 14/09/2021 13:02:09:

Then when everyone has electrically powered heat pumps will they start dictating that they will also have to be switched off at peak demand times as well?

That's what teh 'smart meter' is for.

One of the growing problems is mains sockets with built in USB, phone chargers not in use, loads fo 'smart' home control light bulbs etc. Then there is the 'get our internet gas heating thermostat so you can switch the heating on before you get home' problem.
Oh the assholes were blocking the M25 again today to increase petrol wastage in the tailback.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Zan on 15/09/2021 13:22:18:

It may be only 1 watt, but I bet there’s a lot more than 100 mil televisions alone on standby at the moment Perhaps a lot more. Just work that out.

.

Sorry but that’s irrelevant to my observation of the 2010 poster

MichaelG.

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

And then we hear on the news today half a dozen rich 'oiks' will swan round the world 'in space' for no other reason than , 'they' can.

Mindless, meaningless extravagance , which is how we got to this state.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Bazyle on 15/09/2021 13:35:42:

.

Oh the assholes were blocking the M25 again today to increase petrol wastage in the tailback.

.

… and now people are getting hurt: **LINK**

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/m25-climate-change-protesters-junction-23-police-arrested-b955371.html

Unbelievable idiocy by the ‘protesters’

MichaelG.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

All the government propaganda has radicalised some young people

Hardly surprising

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

In a relatively cool climate like the UK for a lot of the year the heat from things on standby contributes towards the heating of the house. It is possible that people are switching central heating on a day or two later because of this slight increase in the background temperature in their houses. This one day delay would swamp a year's use of standby for most UK properties.

One of the examples of not looking at the whole picture before coming out with new restrictions was the limiting of the power of vacuum cleaners. Due to lower power they need to be used longer so the overall effect is probably not what was intended.

Martin C

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

One of the examples of not looking at the whole picture before coming out with new restrictions was the limiting of the power of vacuum cleaners. Due to lower power they need to be used longer so the overall effect is probably not what was intended.

Not sure that is a good example.

The reason that particular change was introduced was due to the way vacuum cleaners were marketed, using the " a more powerful motor = more suction" reasoning. In reality, powerful motors were used to mask inefficient designs, so the "more powerful motor" rarely gave better performance over a better designed, lower power unit. But the "bigger is better" argument won out in the shops.

The limiting of vacuum cleaner power lead to more efficient designs & vacuum cleaners are mostly more efficient than before using less power, so the overall effect is probably just what was intended. I doubt many went out & changed an old unit just for the sake of getting a more efficient new one, but with natural wastage the current population of older inefficient cleaners will eventually be replaced.

Nigel B.

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

There was talk of the EU banning high power electric kettles. As it takes the same amount of energy to boil a pint of water whether you have a 250 watt or 750 watt heater this seems a pretty pointless exercise to me. In fact a low power element will take longer and have more heat loss. Some times these politicians just don't think things through.

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

I notice ,today , we have had to use the OCGT units , these are little more than 25% efficient.

Desperate times and it is still only summer.

[Stephen MillwardParticipant @stephenmillward99920]

After a 30 years of working in energy efficiency, I'm now firmly of the view that regulations made by our politicians are the thing that make a difference. Without regulations we would still be buying tungsten lightbulbs, G rated fridges, non condensing boilers, less efficient cars, consumer electronics with high standby power and new homes wouldn't be insulated.

Most manufacturers, if left unregulated, will design products that are cheap and inefficient. Most consumers will continue to buy the cheap inefficient products, which is why most manufacturers don't care about efficiency. Regulations drive the manufacturers to innovate so that high efficiency becomes standard and affordable.

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

I agree Stephen. People will gripe for a while and then things become second nature. Sometimes that does not work quite as efficiently as intended; as mentioned I think quite a few people still treat the new multiple use carrier bags like their old single use ancestors, which rather defies the point.

The real innovation will be the day we learn to generate electricity from grizzled and grumpy forum cynicism. We will be able to shut off the national grid.

Edited By Jon Lawes on 16/09/2021 11:32:23

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

Great idea JL , I will be happy to be connected to the Grid , as long as the 'new generation' are pedaling away too, and with no complaint , because they were "too busy" to see this situation happening.

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Could anybody please explain why it is considered sensible to turn productive farmland over to "solar farms" instead of installing the panels over supermarket parking spaces? My suspicious mind wonders whether once the panels age and fail they will be removed leaving a brownfield site that can be used for housing.

Brian G

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Posted by Brian G on 16/09/2021 15:40:14:

Could anybody please explain why it is considered sensible to turn productive farmland over to "solar farms" instead of installing the panels over supermarket parking spaces? My suspicious mind wonders whether once the panels age and fail they will be removed leaving a brownfield site that can be used for housing.

Brian G

So many massive warehouses seem to be getting erected they could become solar generators if the roofs were covered in panels.

 

 

Edited By V8Eng on 16/09/2021 16:14:12

Edited By V8Eng on 16/09/2021 16:15:23

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The framework for holding the panels over the car park would cost more than the panels. Likewise the reinforcement for the warehouse roof would use up 10 or more years of energy generation.

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Stephen Millward on 16/09/2021 11:20:29:

After a 30 years of working in energy efficiency, I'm now firmly of the view that regulations made by our politicians are the thing that make a difference.

Which explains why I now have an extra 2 light pendants in my lounge & 1 each in the study & bedrooms, so I can still see due to the stupid dim light of these so called "efficient" light bulbs & why I now have to flush the water saving wc cisterns in my house 3 times to clear the pan, because there is insufficient water discharge per flush. Nothing like a bit of regulation to c..k things up

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 16/09/2021 21:47:12

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by Bazyle on 16/09/2021 21:16:16:

The framework for holding the panels over the car park would cost more than the panels. Likewise the reinforcement for the warehouse roof would use up 10 or more years of energy generation.

Which would stil be a win if the panels last 25yrs.
Solar panels have never worked out cost effective for me but I am revisiting them since I forecast that electricty prices will surge over the next 10 years and while their return may not be as dramatic, any other investments I might make would be subject to tax ( all other tax free avenues committed)

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Apparently the French inter-connecter has caught fire and likely to be out action for some time possibly with only half power at some stage

Of course predictions suggest consumer bills will rise.

Winter is nigh I must check my generator out and get some fuel!

Edited By V8Eng on 16/09/2021 23:19:30

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

Wouldn't be cooincidental with Le French losing the Australian Subs order?

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Posted by V8Eng on 16/09/2021 23:17:24:

Winter is nigh I must check my generator out and get some fuel!

Edited By V8Eng on 16/09/2021 23:19:30

Don't forget that from reports in the USA wrt overwintered small equipment the new improved E10 fuel doesn't store well.

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