time for peace-genova

This topic has 26 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 7 April 2017 at 10:58 by Michael Gilligan.

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30 March 2017 at 21:25 #291326
Mario Serafica
Participant
@marioserafica13618
Dear Sirs,

my name is Mario Serafica and I am member of the small Italian charity association “Time for Peace-Genova” (www.timeforpeacegenova.org).

We are looking to purchase a desktop milling machine to carry out pieces for orthopedic prosthesis.

Till now we have realized our pieces by molds and injection pressing, but molds are very expensive and cannot be modified if necessary…

We have been advised that Sieg SX2P is a nice piece as well as Warco WM16 and we should like to get some opinions and/or suggestion, taking into account the projects we are planning to do and the choice to entrust the task to a beginner.

The first project is to machining a Delrin foot keel ,as shown on the attached drwgs.

So please let us know all what necessary ( milling machine,tools and aux) and your best offer for them.

The other project is more binding i.e. realizing a knee joints as per our design and drwgs.

We have examined and tested by 3D printer, but with poor results concerning mechanical strength.

The prototypes have been machined by professional operators, do you think that SX2P or WM16 could be adequate for this purpose ? (or what else, also planning for future CNC )(Amadeal?)

And what about combo lathe/milling machine for this goal ?

That is all. Thanks for your attention

Waiting for your kind reply, our best regards

For Time for Peace-Genova

Mario Serafica

[email protected]
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30 March 2017 at 21:25 #8638
Mario Serafica
Participant
@marioserafica13618
31 March 2017 at 20:24 #291521
Chris Evans 6
Participant
@chrisevans6
I know nothing about the machines you mention but have seen them. They are a "Hobby" machine for light home use and in my opinion not suitable to produce quantity items. They are however a very good machine with which to learn, my Brother in law has one and does some very good work.
31 March 2017 at 20:41 #291524
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Hello Mario,

This is a discussion forum, we don't sell tools, although many of our advertisers sell the sort of machines you describe.

If you are talking about producing small numbers of parts, then these machines would be capable of the job, but for producing significant numbers you might be better getting a CNC-based company to make them for you in batches. The one-off cost will be high, but reduce rapidly for large quantities.

Neil
31 March 2017 at 20:52 #291526
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
The size of these parts is towards the maximum size that you could machine on a X2 size machine so you may be better off looking for the next size up.

Also if you are having to ask what tooling you will require with the machine do you actually have somebody who is capable of making these parts? They are quite complex and would need quite a lot of tooling and set up. Certainly not something an inexperianced user could manage to make.

J
31 March 2017 at 21:01 #291528
Anonymous
We have been advised that Sieg SX2P is a nice piece as well as Warco WM16 and we should like to get some opinions and/or suggestion, taking into account the projects we are planning to do and the choice to entrust the task to a beginner.

The first project is to machining a Delrin foot keel ,as shown on the attached drwgs.

The other project is more binding i.e. realizing a knee joints as per our design and drwgs.

I had a total knee replacement 3 weeks ago, I'd hate to think "a beginner" had knocked out all the bits and pieces required on a similar manual mill to the one in my shed and I'd got to rely on it. Surely for the accuracy and special materials required for implants it's going to be cheaper and safer all round to buy such things in.
31 March 2017 at 21:18 #291530
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Mick Berrisford on 31/03/2017 21:01:54:

We have been advised that Sieg SX2P is a nice piece as well as Warco WM16 and we should like to get some opinions and/or suggestion, taking into account the projects we are planning to do and the choice to entrust the task to a beginner.

The first project is to machining a Delrin foot keel ,as shown on the attached drwgs.

The other project is more binding i.e. realizing a knee joints as per our design and drwgs.

I had a total knee replacement 3 weeks ago, I'd hate to think "a beginner" had knocked out all the bits and pieces required on a similar manual mill to the one in my shed and I'd got to rely on it. Surely for the accuracy and special materials required for implants it's going to be cheaper and safer all round to buy such things in.

.

Mick,

I may be wrong, but …

I'm almost certain that they are making prosthetics, not implants.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: for your peace of mind

http://timeforpeacegenova.org/en/protesi-arto-superiore/

P.S. … I hope your replacement has gone well

My wife is waiting for hers, so any info would be gratefully received.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 31/03/2017 21:24:49
31 March 2017 at 21:18 #291531
Peter Krogh
Participant
@peterkrogh76576
MIck, the key words here are "…orthopedic prosthesis." Not used internally.

Pete
31 March 2017 at 22:06 #291543
David George 1
Participant
@davidgeorge1
The first hip joints to be fitted in the UK were turned and milled on a Drummond by John Charney in Manchester in the 1960's why not CNC newer replacements.

David

Edited By David George 1 on 31/03/2017 22:09:08
31 March 2017 at 22:23 #291550
David George 1
Participant
@davidgeorge1
PS I have a couple left over from a project I was involved in some years ago. One needs a bit more machining!

David
31 March 2017 at 22:33 #291552
Anonymous
"realizing a knee joint" threw me off into thinking it was more than just a prosthetic.

Michael G – best wishes to your good lady. She won't regret having it done , hurts for a few days then starts to ease off but will take a while to get the full movement back . I hate to say it but try to follow the physio programme they give her, they seem to think everyone has the same recovery capabilities, which they don't, but doing the different exercises just to the best of one's abilities really does help.
31 March 2017 at 22:42 #291557
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Thanks Mick

and Best Wishes for your recovery

MichaelG.
31 March 2017 at 23:11 #291563
Phil P
Participant
@philp
I am just in the middle of designing a shot peening system to stress relieve those hip joint stems.

I was quite surprised at how big some of them are, I have been looking at one about a foot long, must be for a big bloke !!

Phil
1 April 2017 at 01:19 #291574
Mario Serafica
Participant
@marioserafica13618
Dear friends,

first of all thanks for your prompt and sincere answers!

In fact we are making "external" orthopedic prosthesis.

Mr Gilligan I hope and wish that your replacement is working fine; our goal is to design, realize and apply easy prosthesis, but reliable and low cost, nevertheless all pieces we design are verified by FEM analysis.

Of course we don't purpose to compete with professional factories and important firms, but our modest items (made with the economical aid of friends and local activities..no others) can give a chance to people who cannot afford those very technological objects.

Till now we make all parts and the details to connect sockets to feet by high pressure injection printing ( we use Delrin), but the moulds are very expensive and so we resort to this system only when we are sure that the final design and tests offer reliable performance.

In this case the new knee joint underwent many trials, but only few with real amputees , therefore we are afraid that some modifications will be necessary….and is not possible to modify a finished mould ..so we plan to machine the knees up to that moment. After that we'll shift to moulds, expensive but allowing very low production costs.

We have asked to CNC-base workshops about ( also Chinese) but the costs and/or numbers didn' t match with our resources…taking into account that we supply free of any charge them.

Anyhow we have decided to machine by ourselves the foot inner keel (always in Delrin )because its easy geometry and we asked IF that milling machine was also suitable for making the knee joint.

Well that is all…for the moment. I apologize for my broken English and again my best regards

for "Time for Peace-Genova" (www.timeforpeacegenova.org)

Mario Serafica

PS we are also carry out tests on upper limbs myoelectric prosthesis ( hand, elbow and soulder) and today one guy cooperating with us for electronics , graduated 110/110 with honours !
1 April 2017 at 07:21 #291581
Raymond Anderson
Participant
@raymondanderson34407
Michael G, Me oldest brother had both knees done, first one about 5 years ago and second one about 3 years ago, both have been a complete success. He is 78 years old and in better "nick " than me !! although 40 years Bricklaying / Masonry has knackered me. As Mick has mentioned, the wife must do the physio to the best of her ability and i'm sure it will a 100 % success.

Best wishes.
1 April 2017 at 09:21 #291598
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Mario,

Whatever you decide to do, I am sure we all wish you well and congratulate your organisation on tackling what is sadly a major problem in a troubled world. Having seen your website it's clear that you are taking a very professional approach.

Rather than buying a manual machine and later converting to CNC, it may be worth looking at an off the shelf CNC machine such as this one:

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/CNC-Milling-Machines/Sieg-KX3-CNC-Hobby-Mill/Sieg-KX3-Hobby-CNC-Mill-Bundle

Obviously this is a major purchase, but it has significantly greater capacity than the X2-size mills and the CNC setup is now well proven. Although aimed for hobby, not production, use, it should be fine for the making of test prototypes along the lines of what you are doing.

Neil
1 April 2017 at 09:21 #291599
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Also best wishes to both Mick and Mrs G. for happy outcomes.

Neil
1 April 2017 at 11:31 #291618
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
One of the Universities in NZ has started making low cost prosthetic limbs using a 3D printer.

Ian S C
1 April 2017 at 11:40 #291619
John Flack
Participant
@johnflack59079
A certain "VET"on TV seems to have boxes of such items, might be a source of advice.
1 April 2017 at 11:41 #291620
John Flack
Participant
@johnflack59079
A certain "VET"on TV seems to have boxes of such items, might be a source of advice.
1 April 2017 at 12:31 #291633
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Raymond Anderson on 01/04/2017 07:21:34:

Michael G, Me oldest brother had both knees done, first one about 5 years ago and second one about 3 years ago, both have been a complete success. He is 78 years old and in better "nick " than me !! although 40 years Bricklaying / Masonry has knackered me. As Mick has mentioned, the wife must do the physio to the best of her ability and i'm sure it will a 100 % success.

Best wishes.

.

Thanks, Raymond … much appreciated

Anne is in great pain at the moment … there is bone-on-bone contact clearly visible on the latest X-Ray images

We're really looking forward to the return of simple pleasures like going for a walk together.

MichaelG.
1 April 2017 at 13:06 #291637
Mario Serafica
Participant
@marioserafica13618
my best wishes Mario Serafica
1 April 2017 at 15:11 #291653
John Flack
Participant
@johnflack59079
A further thought on the topic…….I seem to recall a group of amateurs who have volunteered to help out in solving mechanical and electrical problems related to the disabled/limbless mobility problems in the UK. But I cannot drag it from my memory. Can any body recall the name? This group may be able to assist Mario perhaps assisting in setting up a similar group in Italy, perhaps avoiding the purchase costs to his charity. This sounds the type of challenge some welcome

Best wishes to Mario and his team.
1 April 2017 at 15:13 #291654
Chris Gunn
Participant
@chrisgunn36534
John, could you be thinking of REMAP? http://www.remap.org.uk/

Chris Gunn
2 April 2017 at 10:10 #291760
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Mario,

I have just sent you a 'Personal Message' regarding your website.

MichaelG.
Author

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