Can’t change a light bulb?

Can’t change a light bulb?

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  • #834856
    Vic
    Participant
      @vic

      Surely this can’t be true?!

      Maybe I can earn a few bob changing them for youngsters? 😂

      IMG_7691

      https://news.sky.com/story/many-young-adults-unable-to-do-basic-diy-tasks-including-changing-light-bulbs-13287978

      #834859
      Peter Cook 6
      Participant
        @petercook6

        Probably is true. I know a couple of people around here who make a decent living doing basic jobs for people. Things like hanging pictures, putting up shelves etc, etc, etc.

        #834884
        Vic
        Participant
          @vic

          Many, many years ago I made some money putting up some shelves for someone I knew at the time. A few weeks later I was back at the house putting some more up for his dad. It’s surprising how many people struggle with stuff like this.

          #834891
          Nigel Graham 2
          Participant
            @nigelgraham2

            I think Halfords is repeating something first raised at least a couple of years ago, but the original might be more obscure. The photograph suggests in America, with that screw-in fitting.

            #834894
            Vic
            Participant
              @vic
              On Nigel Graham 2 Said:

              The photograph suggests in America, with that screw-in fitting.

              Im not sure why you’d assume that? It’s probably only a stock photo, but having said that B&Q seem to stock more lamps with Edison Scew than Bayonet. I’ve certainly got quite a few in stock myself the last time I went looking for a lamp.

              IMG_7695

              #834898
              duncan webster 1
              Participant
                @duncanwebster1

                Having in my time completely rebuilt engines I’m in the embarrassing position of being unable to change a sidelight bulb. I know how to do it, access is not too bad, but it simply won’t budge. I’m afraid to get too enthusiastic as damaging the headlight assembly would be expensive. As I never park on street in unlit areas I’m leaving it to the next MOT when I’ll ask the garage chap to do it.

                #834899
                Bazyle
                Participant
                  @bazyle

                  I have a growing number of ES bulbs in the house as so man new devices are made for USA and then the importers just get the cheapest which because of volume is the USA option.
                  A friend used to work for I think it was ‘task monkey’ at weekends and evenings mostly assembling Ikea flat packs. Doing it through this company got him covered for insurance as well as finding the jobs in the first place.

                  #834913
                  Robert Atkinson 2
                  Participant
                    @robertatkinson2

                    The increase of ES lamps in the UK has more to do with europe then the USA. It started with IKEA. For a lot of people in the UK an IKEA lamp was their first exposure to an ES lamp. A typical USA light fitting is not rated for 240V and most things like table and floor lamps there still use single insulated figurw of 8 “zip” cable which is not acceptable here.

                    On incapable youth how about MIT engineering graduates who can’t light a bulb with a battery and bit of wire:

                    I help at a number of Repair Cafes where we not only repair things but teach the owners how to do do many things themselves. Often its more about giving them confidence to try more than actual skills.

                    Robert.

                     

                     

                    #834917
                    Mike Hurley
                    Participant
                      @mikehurley60381

                      I’m not at all surprised. My view is that it’s cultural – for years most ‘ordinary’ people had to ‘make do & mend’ as there was no alternative. Dads (usually – but not exclusively) often learned by mistakes but eventually got the job done, and typically their offspring would learn from them. Since the last war, the throwaway society simply reduces the need to do those fiddling little fix it jobs etc so the practical side of life becomes less important, and this continues from generation to generation.

                      Typically the sort of person who inhabits this forum are becoming the exception rather than the rule.

                      In a few years, when they get older, I shall probably be hinting to the grandchildren that getting proper training as plumbers / electricians etc may be a better career choice then academia / office work as that way they will become the new ‘elite’.

                       

                       

                      #834918
                      Clive Foster
                      Participant
                        @clivefoster55965

                        It was ever thus.

                        Pretty much since Ug the caveman lost this temper with Tharg who couldn’t nap a flint into a sharp edge or char harden a wooden spear point to save his life there have been numerous folk unable to do what others consider simple tasks.

                        A boringly recurrent cheap shot by journalists and similar wanting to make themselves look clever at others expense. Usually to cover up their own intellectual inabilities but making lots of noise. Mostly about a very small number of folk in the wrong place for the skills they have learned. My attitude is if they can’t do it show them. Properly working out why they have never learned would be instructive too. But way too complex a concept for the shouters.

                        Like Duncan I’m occasionally (OK,OK often) reminded how hard it can be to remember the flaming obvious. Like last week I spent almost three hours faffing about getting a failed rear airspring out of a P38 Range Rover. Including internet research breaks. Eventually the penny dropped. Prybar in, straight end first curve down, heave up and “pop” out it came. Took me just as long last time I did one 12 years ago. I ought to have remembered, or at least been able to work it of tout-de-suit. Manual says “pull out”. Yeah, right. Working through a 5/8″ slot doesn’t help visibility.

                        Clive

                         

                        #834919
                        roy entwistle
                        Participant
                          @royentwistle24699

                          What are the servants for? Surely if the lamp is outside then the gardener. if inside and downstairs, then the chauffeur. If upstairs, then one of the footmen. It couldn’t be easier

                          Roy

                          #834920
                          noel shelley
                          Participant
                            @noelshelley55608

                            Mikes last statement is a point I have been making to people for a while. A degree is fine BUT there are only so many theorist we need, at some point somebody has to put things into practice.

                            As for 240V ES bulbs I view them as suspect in design if not dangerous. If the polarity on the lighting circuit is reversed the cap can be still live as it is being unscrewed, whereas a bayonet cap is never live.

                            Ah well, the world we live in !  Noel.

                            #834926
                            Bo’sun
                            Participant
                              @bosun58570

                              I’m surprised no comment about youngsters not being as exposed to practical tasks like they would have been some years ago.  Be that at school, apprenticeships or handed from father to son.  And yes, the throwaway society hasn’t helped either.

                              #834929
                              Hollowpoint
                              Participant
                                @hollowpoint

                                I have said it before, that there was a massive shift that happened sometime around the 90’s. Schools stopped promoting manual skills and started pushing students hard into the college/university route. Presumably to indoctrinate them into becoming social justice warriors.

                                I remember it well. I hated school and I was never any good at anything other than “technology” (woodwork for the old). I clearly remember career advisors scoffing at my plans to do something manual rather than go to college.

                                Alongside this, everyone suddenly went politically correct and health and safety mad. Again I remember schools cancelling things like day trips and science experiments because of “health and safety”. Talking to older generations they got to do all kinds of things we were never aloud.

                                I am part of the last generation that experienced life before and after. I am old enough to remember life before the internet and mobile phones but young enough to have grown up with access to both.

                                I imagine things have only gotten worse since. I for one am not surprised the youth of today have minimal practical skills.

                                #834945
                                Nigel Graham 2
                                Participant
                                  @nigelgraham2

                                  I would not take that video seriously, and it is hard to know exactly its point. It was not a fair test because to manipulate a battery, lamp and piece of wire free-hand like that requires as much manual dexterity as basic electrical knowledge.

                                  It’s possible some of those graduates were made nervous by the approach: Is it a trick question? Am I being set up? So retreated into doubt.

                                  Nevertheless the assumption of being able to perform simple practical tasks such as household DIY no longer holds, partly by the “throw-away society” and its “No user-serviceable parts inside” labels.

                                  Also I fear, an intense snobbery engendered by the IT trade, so-called “lifestyle columnists”, celebrities showing how to succeed without talent, and too many politicians, pushing the idea that no-one needs be able to do anything practical; that only so-called “technology” matters, that “engineering” means getting all oily under a car, that we all only need “Just hit [sic] Enter’ ” and it all happens.

                                   

                                  The point about “health and safety” is valid in showing the fear by so many school heads, education officials and the like. Faced with a problem beyond their experience they take the route of the Bureaucrat anywhere: solve it by either insisting on rules that impress only solicitors, or by making the activity non-existent.

                                   

                                  Not by understanding the activity, the law, the normal precautions, the difference between hazard and risk, the need not only to perform the activity safely but that the precautions are themselves workable*; and the principle that the proper way to approach a task is to learn how to do it properly and safely.

                                  Instead it’s, “It looks dangerous so let’s ensure no-one does it” – thereby ensuring no-one can do it, and do it safely.

                                  It is easier and bureaucratically preferable to not educate, than to educate; so no-one learns.

                                   

                                  *Unworkable precautions are those most likely to be ignored but even where used so everyone is in the clear legally, are clearly wrong technically. Two examples from work:

                                  Some portable equipment in 20ft shipping-containers, requiring a large mobile-crane and low-loader to move. The safety types at work insisted the slinger who had to climb onto the container to attach the hooks, wear a fall-arrest harness. A fall-arrest harness uses a folded and stitched lanyard that “unzips” to absorb the energy of the falling wearer after he has fallen its two or three-foot length below the belay, and safely halt him dangling several feet lower still. The belay points should be above the user’s waist level at least. On a shipping-container they are already at the slinger’s foot level, on the corners of a box about eight feet high…

                                  Related to that… A workshop with clerestory windows about thirty feet up. Of the two contractors applying anti-glare tinting, the one outside was on a flat roof accessible from an internal, fixed ladder from the top floor. His mate, indoors, was on the walkway of a travelling-crane, and wearing a fall-arrest harness, hard-hat etc. Fine so far….? I asked one of the crane operators how we’d rescue him from dangling in mid-air, assuming he’d not brayed himself against the many fittings bolted to the wall. No-one knew.

                                  In both cases, all the boxes had been ticked, all the papers signed… Was anyone intrinsically safe?

                                  #834961
                                  Nicholas Farr
                                  Participant
                                    @nicholasfarr14254

                                    Hi Nigel Graham 2, your point about rescuing someone in a dangling harness is a valid one, whenever a job requires the use of a harness and lanyard, whether its the unfolding type or a steel wire retracting fall limiter lanyard, it must be included into the risk assessment of the whole of the job, and a suitable and safe method for retrieving someone who has the pleasure of dangling in a harness, and in the minimum amount of time, as if someone is dangling for too long, it can lead to the serious injury or even death of that person, I can’t remember the exact amount of time, but i’s not very long and will differ from one person to others due to their weight and build, so first of all you need to have a lanyard that is not too long or too short. If a suitable and safe method can not be achieved, then a different way of working should be used, i.e. Scaffolding, or a mobile elevating work platform, often referred to as a Cherry Picker, but mobile elevating work platforms should not be used as a people lift, as they are for working from, and no one should step out of or into one, when in a raised position, so that should not be a method for rescue written into the risk assessment. Everyone on the job should be aware of the risks involved, and know what action is to be taken in the a event that something goes wrong.

                                    Regards Nick.

                                    #834962
                                    Speedy Builder5
                                    Participant
                                      @speedybuilder5

                                      Isn’t information from the web wonderful!  Just by producing a bulb with an Edison screw thread we achieve a reduction of energy. Its true, its all on this page!!!

                                      What Is An ES Light Bulb? A Complete Guide

                                      What I dislike most about the change from a filament bulb to other technologies is that Wattage means little to the light emitted.  Sure, wattage is power consumed but equally important is the light emitted and as seen by humans (photometry measures)

                                      Old school was candle power (Candela) – understood over a hundred years ago by most humans.

                                      Lumens – for the over 60’s

                                      Lux for the under 60’s

                                      Frequently lamps are sold and rated by wattage and nothing else. – Rant over.

                                      Bob

                                      #834973
                                      Peter Cook 6
                                      Participant
                                        @petercook6

                                        It’s going to get worse. I am seeing an increasing number of LED light fittings where the “bulb” is integral. There is a) probably no way to get it out without destroying the unit, b) no chance in hell of finding a spare if you did.

                                        #834975
                                        Nicholas Farr
                                        Participant
                                          @nicholasfarr14254
                                          On Speedy Builder5 Said:

                                          Isn’t information from the web wonderful!  Just by producing a bulb with an Edison screw thread we achieve a reduction of energy. Its true, its all on this page!!!

                                          What Is An ES Light Bulb? A Complete Guide

                                          What I dislike most about the change from a filament bulb to other technologies is that Wattage means little to the light emitted.  Sure, wattage is power consumed but equally important is the light emitted and as seen by humans (photometry measures)

                                          Old school was candle power (Candela) – understood over a hundred years ago by most humans.

                                          Lumens – for the over 60’s

                                          Lux for the under 60’s

                                          Frequently lamps are sold and rated by wattage and nothing else. – Rant over.

                                          Bob

                                          Hi, well, my Norton security won’t let me look at that Complete Guide, and tells me it is dangerous.

                                          Regards Nick.

                                          #834978
                                          derek hall 1
                                          Participant
                                            @derekhall1

                                            I worked with an ex Royal Navy engineer with over 22 years service, who told me bulbs get planted in the ground. The correct word is “lamp”…

                                             

                                            I wasn’t going to argue with him, he was bigger than me…..

                                             

                                            #834979
                                            derek hall 1
                                            Participant
                                              @derekhall1

                                              The same ex Royal Navy engineer also said “that the problem with graduates coming out of universities these days is that they can tell you the square root of a jar of pickles – but they can’t get the top off”

                                              #834988
                                              Nigel Graham 2
                                              Participant
                                                @nigelgraham2

                                                I used to know a professional electrician who would repeat his college lecturer’s mantra: “Lamps glow, bulbs grow!”

                                                Examining two random packs of lamps, one of GU10 l.e.d.s, the other a miniature tubular flourescent, both give the lumens as well electrical power and incandescent equivalent in W. Though in the tiny print that satisfies regulations, more important than informing customers. Perhaps the manufacturers think most householders are comfortable with Watts, since we buy thousands of those at a time, but are totally in the dark about lumens, lux or indeed the SI basic unit of light intensity, the candela.

                                                They may be right of course!

                                                Wikipedia tells me …

                                                The candela […] is defined by taking the fixed numerical value of the luminous efficacy of monochromatic radiation of frequency 540×1012 Hz,[a] Kcd, to be 683 when expressed in the unit lm W−1, which is equal to cd sr W−1, or cd sr kg−1 m−2 s3, where the kilogram, metre and second are defined in terms of h, c and ΔνCs.[10]

                                                So we’ve no excuse.

                                                It goes on to say 1 candela corresponds to one average wax candle (!) and the wavelength is a green light near the human eye’s maximum sensitivity. So like the  0 decibel re 20µPa base for airborne sound pressure… despite all the high-flown Hard Sums and bramble-thicket arguments by anonymous committee types paid to stay out of labs and drawing-offices, the unit is anthropocentric !

                                                ‘Bout as bright as chapel altar candle, then.

                                                 

                                                Years back one could buy household DIY compendia of advice on simple repairs and the like. Are they still published?

                                                Even “our” magazine, in its & Electrician rather than & Workshop era, sometimes got in on the act: workshop wiring and in one edition, re-seating the scullery tap using the lathe and improvised Keats Angle-plate.

                                                ;;;

                                                Nicholas –

                                                I never had to work at heights – just as well as they and I agree to differ, although my work sometimes meant short instances of remembering at least I was being paid to be frightened. I was though trained in using lifting-tackle and operating overhead cranes, which comes in good stead in my home workshop.

                                                However, with some decades of caving, I am well aware of roped access technicques, and the industrial version was indeed started by cavers who spotted the wage-earning potential.

                                                Among these, used industrially as well as for fun, developed the principle that your protect yourself from falling more than about an arm’s-length from the belay.

                                                We do not use fall-arrest harnesses because that risks dangling helplessly in space over a dirty great drop and a long way from the nearest wall. Potentially as disabling or fatal as falling to the floor.

                                                Instead we attach ourselves to belayed ropes by two short lines called “Cows’-tails”, an idea adapted from rock-climbing. Of different lengths for particular moves, the longer is still short enough for you to operate the karabiner on its end. Plus as far as possible, we avoid climbing above the belay-points, to limit any possible fall to cow’s-tail length or less.

                                                (This is different from rock-climbing in which the leader trails the rope behind, so a fall is far as the last belay then the same depth again.)

                                                The industrial version’s regulations demand twin ropes, adding to the complexity. It might reflect the greater risk of abrading the rope on some projection, on a high building.

                                                Suspension-trauma, as you describe, is a serious matter; hence my concern about the man using the crane gangway as an access-platform. It is possible to ward it off by gently moving your legs  – if you are conscious. I do not know what risk-assessment the two glaziers or their managers would have had to write, so I don’t know if all this was covered.

                                                The slinger working on the the shipping-container should have been able to work from a ladder, but he did have to go on the top at times, probably when the hooks were lying there out of reach.

                                                 

                                                Mobile lifting platforms are de-facto people lifts and movers, even if only to reach the work point itself; though not for scaffolding accces and such-like. Some are terrifyingly high though, as I see in the yard of a tower-rental company next to the camp-site I use when at “The Fosse”. The operators have to raise and lower them fully, presumably in maintainance and testing the machines prior to customers’ use.  They are clipped on.

                                                #835000
                                                Speedy Builder5
                                                Participant
                                                  @speedybuilder5

                                                  What is an ES light bulb ……

                                                  For those who could not access the link:-

                                                  ES stands for Edison Screw, which refers to the threaded base of the bulb This type of bulb is characterized by its screw-like base, making it easily recognizable The screw base makes installation a breeze, as it simply needs to be twisted into the socket ES light bulbs are versatile and can be used in a wide variety of fixtures, including lamps, chandeliers, ceiling fans, and wall sconces.

                                                  One of the primary advantages of ES light bulbs is their energy efficiency Compared to traditional incandescent bulbs, ES bulbs consume significantly less energy while providing the same level of brightness This energy efficiency not only helps reduce electricity bills but also contributes to a greener environment by reducing carbon emissions.

                                                  #835003
                                                  Andrew Crow
                                                  Participant
                                                    @andrewcrow91475
                                                    On Speedy Builder5 Said:

                                                    One of the primary advantages of ES light bulbs is their energy efficiency Compared to traditional incandescent bulbs, ES bulbs consume significantly less energy while providing the same level of brightness This energy efficiency not only helps reduce electricity bills but also contributes to a greener environment by reducing carbon emissions.

                                                    Only if they are LED’s but LED lamps are also available with the more traditional UK bayonet fittings, so no no real advantage at all.

                                                    #835004
                                                    Nicholas Farr
                                                    Participant
                                                      @nicholasfarr14254

                                                      Hi Nigel, yes of course they lift people up to reach a job, and yes you should use a lanyard attached when using a mobile elevating platform, but they should only be long enough to be able to do the work, and are really to stop you climbing out. You can get them that do go really high, the highest one I’ve been in, reached 17 metres at full length, and that’s a bit daunting even, as they do sway a little bit. I have been in a Man Basket attached to a mobile crane hook, up to about 30 meters, which isn’t too bad, provided you have a good crane operator, which we did have.

                                                      Regards Nick.

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