Can I?

Can I?

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  • #88345
    Bob Perkins
    Participant
      @bobperkins67044

      Dear all

      A bit more advice please. Can I make the flywheel in the picture from an aluminimum round in a lathe without a rotary table?? The image below is a bit rough, but clearer if viewd from my album.

      Thanks in expectation

      Flywheel

      #6067
      Bob Perkins
      Participant
        @bobperkins67044
        #88350
        JasonB
        Moderator
          @jasonb

          The turning can all be done in the lathe assuming you can swing that dia. Your drawing does not show if you intend to have spokes or a solid disc, the spokes particularly if tapered are easier done with a rotary table but could just as well be done with some carefully positioned holes, some sawing and then careful filing.

          One word of caution with ali flywheels is they don't have much mass so if you are copying a design that calls for brass, bronze or iron you will need to add a lot more bulk to the flywheel or up the dia.

           J

          Edit just enlarged it and you are having spokes so yest it can be done without a RT but would be easier with one.

          Edited By JasonB on 03/04/2012 16:11:11

          #88351
          Bob Perkins
          Participant
            @bobperkins67044

            Jason

            Thanks for you comments. There are 4 spokesn If you click on the image it open the original image, well it does on my pc. I'm hoping the mass will be ok as the original design had a diecast flywheel. My logic is that If it works great. If I cock it up then it's £6 of ally not £20 of brass, and I'll hopefully detemine the best method the make it. As per you comments I think it will be lots of filing.

            Regards

            Bob

            #88355
            Les Jones 1
            Participant
              @lesjones1

              Hi Bob,

              As Jason says you need to re design the flywheel so the it will have the same moment of inertia as one made from diecast metal. The density of aluminium is about 2.7 gm/cu cm Diecast metal has a density of about 6.8 gm/cu cm (about 2.5 times the density of aluminium.) I think I have seen a reference to someone making a flywheel of of aluminum then drilling holes all round the outer edge of the flywheel then filling them with lead. This seems a lot of trouble to go to. Have you considered collecting diecast metal and melting it down to cast into a disk in a suitable tin can.

              Les.

              #88357
              JasonB
              Moderator
                @jasonb

                Bob, I've scribbled on your drawing a bit, if you drill holes where I have drawn the red circles and then cut/file to the red curves your file will only be against the 4mm thick webs and there will be no risk of marking the inner edge of the flywheel or hub. Again click to see my lines.

                flywheel

                 

                Also think about glueing with loctite the spokes into a piece of steel tube to give the rim more mass.

                Edited By JasonB on 03/04/2012 18:04:18

                #88358
                _Paul_
                Participant
                  @_paul_

                  Thats an awful lot of filing, can't you make a composite item in steel? would have more mass too.

                  #88359
                  JasonB
                  Moderator
                    @jasonb

                    I'd hardly call that a lot of filing, the spokes are 1" long and the inside of the rim 3" dia all in 4mm thick alloy.

                    J

                    #88418
                    Ian S C
                    Participant
                      @iansc

                      Bob, I'd tend to make the rim at least twice as thick as the drawing shows if possible, another way of adding weight would be a steel (or other heavyer metal) tire on the outside of the rim. I made a flywdeel that way (its on one of the motors in my album) the cast iron rim is pressed in to the part with the spokes made of 1/4" steel plate, with the hub brazed in. The rim is attached with 6 3/16" countersunk screws. The complete wheel is 6" dia X 1" across the face of the wheel. This type of construction would suit aluminium spokes, the screws could go straight into the end of the spokes. On a little oscillator I built at a schoolnight class the only metal available for the flywheel was 40 mm dia aluminium, the engine would only run at high speed, I took along a bit of brass, an made another flywheel, the engine would then run at just a gentle tick over, don't know who designed it, but I redid the drawing for it, improving the performance and looks of the engine, and saved about 25% in matials, enough to make it about the same cost with a brass flywheel. Ian S C

                      #88429
                      Terryd
                      Participant
                        @terryd72465

                        Hi Bob,

                        You could make the rim a bit thicker and machine a groove in the outer diameter then fill with molten lead to give a suitable mass. That can be acheived by wrapping the rim with a metal strap with a small gap for the lead to be poured in. Then just skim the outside diameter in the lathe. I would taper the spokes tapered for a better look.

                        Ramon Wilson made a fabricated flywheel for his Andrew Mount Table Engine and there are a lot of other examples

                        Regards

                        Terry

                        #88452
                        Bob Perkins
                        Participant
                          @bobperkins67044

                          Dear all

                          Thanks for your advice and comments. No point in asking for them and then ignoring the. I plan to change the material to steel to add some mass. I'm not going to try to add weight to the original aluminium design. I want to keep as close to the plan as possible as I'm trying to copy an original flywheel. However I'm not sure if I'm a "filer" or a "fabricator", I have a foot in both camps at the moment dont know

                          Regards

                          Bob..

                          #88454
                          Terryd
                          Participant
                            @terryd72465

                            Hi Bob,

                            That's a good choice but don't think that adding weight to a flywheel by filling or adding steel 'tyres' is somehow cheating. Many modellers as well as full size engines used such techniques, They are as valid as any other.

                            Here is a video of a well known modeller on YouTube making a lead filled and 'tyred' flywheel:

                             

                             
                             
                            Best regards and good luck with your project, Give us some pictures please,
                             
                             
                            Terry

                            Edited By Terryd on 04/04/2012 21:53:49

                            #88480
                            Ian S C
                            Participant
                              @iansc

                              Thanks for the vidio Terry, worth the look, only took 1hr 20min to get to about 15 sec before the end, then it dropped out, thats dial up, never mind saw enough to see a worthwhile bit of work. Ian S C

                              #89364
                              Bob Perkins
                              Participant
                                @bobperkins67044

                                Some more advice on this please. As per your previous comments I am now making this from steel to add mass. I'm unsure how to turn/bore the face profiles. To I start from the centre and work out as far as I can go, and then with an opposite ground tool work from the outside to meet this? How do I achieve the finish on the inside of the rim and the centre.

                                I've removed some info from the drawing to clarify the dotted profile I'm talking about.

                                Thanks

                                Bob..

                                Flywheel profile

                                #89372
                                JasonB
                                Moderator
                                  @jasonb

                                  Yes you can either use a boring bar to do the outer face of the web & inside of the rim then change to a facing tool to complete the face of the web and hub. Or if you don't have a screw on chuck leave the boring bar in place and work from the back with the lathe in reverse.

                                  The other way is to use something like a rounded parting tool held parallel to the lateh axis and work across the web face with this. A tool like this is better when ther diameters are smaller or distance between faces less, used it on these.

                                  #89375
                                  JasonB
                                  Moderator
                                    @jasonb

                                    Sketched it out here, either the red & blue tool or just the red with the hub being done in reverse. Use either tipped tools or grind up something similar from HSS

                                    Edited By JasonB on 19/04/2012 18:32:12

                                    #89382
                                    Bob Perkins
                                    Participant
                                      @bobperkins67044

                                      Hi Jason

                                      Thanks for taking the time to do this for me, Hopefully I'll post a photo in a few days

                                      Regards

                                      Bob..

                                      #89385
                                      Jim C
                                      Participant
                                        @jimc

                                        Hi Bob,

                                        You said your original design was for die cast metal. Was this die cast Aluminium or die cast Zinc?

                                        Maybe using an Aluminium billet would be okay anyway?? more in-keeping with the original specification.

                                        Just a thought,

                                        Jim.

                                        #89391
                                        Bob Perkins
                                        Participant
                                          @bobperkins67044

                                          Hi Jim

                                          Thanks for your interest. I'm not sure is the answer to your question. I'm working from some 1910 patent sketches and some very sparse data. From the few images I have my best guess is that its cast. Ive assumed die cast ally….

                                          #89403
                                          Ian S C
                                          Participant
                                            @iansc

                                            If it's 1910 drawings you are working from, it would be either brass, or cast iron in my opinion, aluminium in those days was a wee bit expensive, I think it took the 1914/18 war to improve its availability. Ian S C

                                            #89961
                                            Bob Perkins
                                            Participant
                                              @bobperkins67044

                                              Nearly finished my flyweel. I've learnt some valuable skills making this. Thanks for the advice all.

                                              Finished

                                              #89963
                                              JasonB
                                              Moderator
                                                @jasonb

                                                Looking good

                                                J

                                                #89975
                                                Will Robertson
                                                Participant
                                                  @willrobertson16447

                                                  Aluminium has a low density compared to other metals – typically a more dense metal would be used for flywheels.

                                                  #89979
                                                  JasonB
                                                  Moderator
                                                    @jasonb

                                                    Thats why he's now making it from steel!!!

                                                    "As per your previous comments I am now making this from steel to add mass"

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