Taps & Dies

Taps & Dies

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  • #237523
    Sam Longley 1
    Participant
      @samlongley1

      I have a large selection of whitworth taps & dies from 3/16 up aquired years ago. It is suplimented by BSF & some metric ones varying from 4-12mm plus BSF & UNF but not really the smaller modelling sizes.

      So I will be taking my credit card to Doncaster on the 22nd in the hope of finding something useful.

      my question to the more experienced is this:-

      If I had to buy a set of good quality smaller model makers taps & dies what would be the best threads to go for to give me the best & most economical range in future model steam engine construction ? should I go for BA, metric or some other thread . I ask because there would be no point – for instance- getting BA if most sizes are specified in metric & metric nuts & bolts are cheaper or easier to obtain. Or if the range is more suitable to most small steam models

      So what sets do engineers find the most used in their kits & what sort of size range these days & is it just because they have them or because they are sizes that get specified the most

      Also any suggestions on manufacturer that might be available

       

      Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 04/05/2016 19:08:15

      #18084
      Sam Longley 1
      Participant
        @samlongley1
        #237524
        Thor 🇳🇴
        Participant
          @thor

          Hi Sam,

          Since I live in a metric country I would of course say metric taps. But if you are going to build steam models using ME threads you will of course need ME taps (or BA if your models use them), and in the UK you can easily get steam fittings using ME threads. So check the drawings for the models you intend to build. I try to use metric threads instead of ME, but I do have a few ME taps.

          As for manufacturer the best taps I have are from Dormer and Völkel, I also have a few serial taps from ARC.

          Thor

          #237525
          mechman48
          Participant
            @mechman48

            I have various taps & dies, some collected over the years, BSW,BSF, UNC,UNF, I also have a set of ME taps & dies bought from Arc Euro many moons ago when I first started thinking about getting into the hobby, same goes for BA sets as the Stuart kits I have always state BA sizes although you can use metric equivalents. In essence I'm pretty well covered but the trend these days is to work to metric even for the smaller size… 2.5 / 3 mm for 8/7 BA , although have noticed that 7 BA is increasingly difficult to come by from all suppliers, why is it just 7 BA when others are readily available?

            George.

            #237530
            JasonB
            Moderator
              @jasonb

              Most designs of steam engine still use BA threads and sizes like 2BA, 5BA and 7BA all fit nicely onto standard imperial size diameters. So unles syou want to convert completely to metric materials and not just fasteners BA is still the way to go. Some ME sizes will also be needed for things like steam fittings.

              But do't buy sets as you will find sizes like 3 BA are not very commonly used, better to buy individual sizes as and when needed. Separates also tend to be better quality than sets unles syou are buying name brands. Sets will also tend to contain a tap whrench and die stock which you probably have several of already so why buy more.

              Mechman, 7BA fixings are harder to come by as the availability of the right size hex stock becomes harder to get.

              #237532
              duncan webster 1
              Participant
                @duncanwebster1

                Metric nuts and bolts are very much cheaper than BA, you can't get the 'one size down' bolt heads, so head sizes can be a bit numb. despite this I'm using more metric nowadays.

                #237537
                JasonB
                Moderator
                  @jasonb

                  Duncan, you can get metric fixings with smaller than standard heads but not at the price of cheap mass produced ones.

                  As an example this pic shows ISO M3 and M4 nuts in the middle with a couple of polly's machine cut nuts next to them. Plenty of small hex metric also available from the mainland European ME suppliers

                  nuts.jpg

                  #237538
                  steamdave
                  Participant
                    @steamdave

                    Depending on how close to scale you build, metric nuts are heavily chamfered on both sides and don't look right, whereas BA nuts tend to have the main chamfer on one side only and are taller = closer to prototype. A good supplier of imperial size threaded bits is available at http://www.ba-bolts.co.uk/

                    Having said that, 'bar turned' metric nuts are becoming more readily available which have the main chamfer on one side only.

                    Dave
                    The Emerald Isle

                    #237540
                    JasonB
                    Moderator
                      @jasonb
                      Posted by steamdave on 04/05/2016 20:41:24:

                      Having said that, 'bar turned' metric nuts are becoming more readily available which have the main chamfer on one side only.

                      Dave
                      The Emerald Isle

                      Just like the ones in my photo abovesmiley

                      #237541
                      Anonymous
                        Posted by steamdave on 04/05/2016 20:41:24:

                        Having said that, 'bar turned' metric nuts are becoming more readily available which have the main chamfer on one side only.

                        Darn it! But I've already bought the hex steel, so I'll be making my own M4 nuts. Chamfer on one side only of course.

                        Andrew

                        #237543
                        Neil Wyatt
                        Moderator
                          @neilwyatt

                          Sam,

                          Your whitworth taps and dies are clearly obselete. bring them along to Doncaster and I will arrange disposal

                          Neil

                          > Having said that, 'bar turned' metric nuts are becoming more readily available which have the main chamfer on one side only.

                          bear in mind that some folk say the chamfered side is meant to go at the bottom so the nut doesn't spoil the paint.

                          Great thing about BA is the small, regular (0.9 times) steps in size make it easy to find one aht's close to scale for almost any small fixing.

                          #237561
                          JasonB
                          Moderator
                            @jasonb
                            Posted by Andrew Johnston on 04/05/2016 21:55:31:

                            Posted by steamdave on 04/05/2016 20:41:24:

                            Having said that, 'bar turned' metric nuts are becoming more readily available which have the main chamfer on one side only.

                            Darn it! But I've already bought the hex steel, so I'll be making my own M4 nuts. Chamfer on one side only of course.

                            Andrew

                            Andrew, out of interest what size hex are you using for your M4 fixings, I feel the ones from polly are almost a bit too small as they use 5.5mm hex on the M4 where 6mm would be a better look. They are also a bit too high for my likeing so I took 0.75mm off the bottom

                            #237581
                            Anonymous
                              Posted by JasonB on 05/05/2016 07:17:45:

                              Andrew, out of interest what size hex are you using for your M4 fixings……….

                              I'll be using 0.275"AF hex for my M4 nuts. Pretty much the same as the commercial nuts I bought but decided not to use.

                              Andrew

                              #237588
                              steamdave
                              Participant
                                @steamdave
                                Posted by JasonB on 04/05/2016 21:00:00:

                                Posted by steamdave on 04/05/2016 20:41:24:

                                Having said that, 'bar turned' metric nuts are becoming more readily available which have the main chamfer on one side only.

                                Dave
                                The Emerald Isle

                                Just like the ones in my photo abovesmiley

                                Sorry JB. I must have been typing when you posted!

                                Dave
                                The Emerald Isle

                                #237593
                                Ian S C
                                Participant
                                  @iansc

                                  When there is talk of chamfer side down, I think of blacksmith made square nuts, these are punched out of plate, and the "flat" side tends to be slightly concave, and if used flat side down either dig into wood, or don't seat down on a metal surface, hense the chamfer down.

                                  Ian S C

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