Unusual Dies

[FalcoParticipant @falco]

[FalcoParticipant @falco]

I inherited a small set of these dies from an old ship engineer's toolbox. I have not seen this type before and suspect the 10G and 12G may have something to do with gas????. What is the significance of the arrow and 1944? Just year of manufacture?

I'd appreciate any opinions or info from the more experienced members if any can help please.

John

Edited By Falco on 23/03/2013 00:19:46

[ASFParticipant @asf]

That looks like an MOD mark and probably the year?

[AndyfParticipant @andyf]

Definitely looks like the broad arrow signifying what was then called the War Department'. My Dad was in REME during the war years, so I'm rather familiar with the WD arrow/year stamp.

How did a bank clerk in his mid twenties end up as an instructor in radio theory and practice? Other guys liberated Europe, but all he seems to have liberated were tools and radio parts.

Andy

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Could they be for spokes?

chriStephens

[Flying FiferParticipant @flyingfifer]

Very definitely what we called a "Crows Foot" ie WD or now MoD marking & the year of manufacture. Not to sure about the 10G or 12G marking though but dont think it has anything to do with gas. More likely used to cleanup/repair a damaged thread possibly on weapons.

Bit of a coincidence about your Dad Ady, my Dad enlisted in1940 into the RAOC & transferred into REME when it was formed. I was only a year old then & can`t remember seeing him till just before he went across the Channel with the rest in 1944. He was demobbed in 1945. I`ve still got his cap badge and all the metric spanners he liberated which my son uses on his car . Little did he know then that much later his son would also work for the REME.

Alan

Just seen Chris post , funny thats what I was thinking.

.

Edited By Flying Fifer on 23/03/2013 01:06:47

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

REME.

Rough Engineering Made Easy

[dean clarke 2Participant @deanclarke2]

The 10G anf 12G are the threads the dies cut., the g means gauge, so they are a 10 gauge and a 12 gauge die.

dean

[Stewart HartParticipant @stewarthart90345]

My old Dad was REME ended up as WO1 Sergeant:- his sister reckoned he was the scruffiest Sergeant she had ever seen in the British army. I've got his cap badges apparently they changed them a couple of years after they were formed.

As for the stuff marked with arrows I served my apprenticship with the Royal Ordnance Factories that were run by the MOD, all the kit was marked with an arrow including the factory issue boots and overalls, it was a bit like working with a bunch of prisoners )

Stew

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Even the loo paper was marked with the WD broad arrow and stamped Propery of MOD as I discovered in the 1960's on visits to Naval dockyards in Scotland.

Brian

[Stewart HartParticipant @stewarthart90345]

Posted by Brian Wood on 23/03/2013 08:57:09:

Even the loo paper was marked with the WD broad arrow and stamped Propery of MOD as I discovered in the 1960's on visits to Naval dockyards in Scotland.

Brian

We used it as sandpaper it was that rough (

Stew

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Now there was an anomaly, it was illegal to damage, destroy or deface government property but the bog paper had the crows foot on it ?

Stew,

Which side ? We had to use both sides

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

The reason they changed the cap badge was King George died and the crown was changed from a king's to a Queen's Incedentally Arborfield Barracks is due to close and REME will move to Lyneham Chippenham about 2015

Roy

[John BurridgeParticipant @johnburridge26484]

As has been said I think they are for motor cycle or bicyle spoke threads,if they are the very old cut rather than rolled spoke thread they might be 62 teeth per inch which was CEI cycle engineering intertute alternatively they may be the later BSCbritish standard cyle thread and used for cleaning rather than cutting(they would be rolled given a lot stonger thread)and would be 56TPI teeth per inch,

Or they might be something totally different!!

John

[John BurridgeParticipant @johnburridge26484]

While on the subject of the REME moving from Arborfield,Does anyone know if they will be having a clear out of old stock,they keep things back to the year dot and can almost provide spares back to Victorian times.

John

[FalcoParticipant @falco]

Thank you gentlemen for all your replies. Never thought of the MOD.

They could indeed be for m/cycle spokes. The sizes are about right. I'll try check the tpi tomorrow out of curiosity and post back, that is if i can get the nose of the gauges in there! Much too cold to go back out to the shed tonight .

John

[FalcoParticipant @falco]

Just to finish out the thread, I checked out the dies and as far as I can see the 8G seems to be 36tpi. It was not easy to see it accurately.

There is a full range of sizes from 8G to 13G in the set with the size decreasing from 8G at c.3mm down to 13G at c.1.5mm.

I compared the thread with that on some old m/cycle spokes. The spokes had a finer 48tpi thread, so it does not look that they were for spokes either.

Maybe something for the museum shelves?

John

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

From Ian Bradley's "Screw Threads and Twist Drills"

British Standard Cycle Threads, for cycle spokes (would be rolled these days with screw OD larger  than the spoke)

SWG TPI Tap Drill No. (Metric Eqv.)

13 56 48 1.95

12 56 44 2.20

11 44 42 2.40

10 40 37 2.65

9 40 31 3.00

8 32 30 3.30

Do these fit?

Rod

Edit:  Formatting's gone to pot. Figures are SWG, TPI, Number drill for tapping and metric equivalent for tapping.

Edited By Roderick Jenkins on 25/03/2013 22:30:06

Edited By Roderick Jenkins on 25/03/2013 22:30:59

[FalcoParticipant @falco]

Rod and others,

Thank you for that info. I had not got those details.

I checked the dies out properly this time and your specs seem to fit them.

They won't be getting a lot of use I feel, even if I decided to do up another old bike. Most go for new stainless spokes in renovations. So I'm not sure what they could be useful for.

Thanks to all who replied for your help.

John

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Could theybe for threading the ends of aircraft bracing wires, ie., from WW1 up to the 1920s. Ian S C

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Nice thought ian, but they are dated 1944. Perhaps for a Walrus or a Swordfish?

Neil

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Oops, I did know that Neil, just forgot, I suppose it could be a Stringbag, but getting a bit late in the war. It's proberbly not aircraft related, it would have AM stamped on them, and a crown. How are the strings of a piano attached, I know one end goes to a peg to tune the thing, what holds the other end, do piano strings go as thick as 10 and 12 G? Ian S C

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

> How are the strings of a piano attached

Funny you ask, I hope to find out soon – I have to figure out a way of moving one 30 miles without paying professionals infinitely more than the piano is worth (£180 >>> £0) – is it possible for two strong chaps to lift a piano into a transit or is a tail lift needed?

Isn't it past your bedtime Ian

Neil

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Standard upright easily lifted, into van or trailer. Will need tuning afterwards. Grand piano not so easy, but did tow one a short distance , mile?, on its own wheels, but these soon wore out.

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

For a grand piano take off the legs and pedel box, put the piano on a trolley on its side.The legs are designed for easy removal. 2 blokes can move one bur easier with 3.Used to move a lot of pianos.

Mark P

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