Triangular Insert Tool

[James AParticipant @jamesalford67616]

Are triangular inserts, like these, suitable for a smaller lathe like the Warco WM180? It looks like a nice set, but I do not know whether it is any good for the machine that I have.

https://warco.co.uk/collections/indexable-lathe-tools/products/indexable-lathe-tools-5-piece-set-6mm-8mm-10mm-12mm-16mm-10mm

James.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Given that they are sold by Warco, I would think they should be!

Ensure you choose holders of appropriate size for the lathe’s tool-post height and centre-height; and tips appropriate for the materials.

You can’t expect industrial metal-shifting rates on a small lathe but there is no reason indexible tooling can’t be used on them, and the notion that it can work only at phenomenal industrial speeds is not really true.

I use a mixture of HSS and carbide tooling at modest speeds on my elderly Myford ML7, without problems.

 

[Roy VaughnParticipant @royvaughn26060]

Make sure to specify tips for non-ferrous materials that have sharp edges and all will be well.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

IMHO you would be better to stick with tool holders that take CCMT060204 and DCMT070204 tips as these tips have a far greater choice of material types and sellers.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I’m also not a particular fan of the triangular inserts for turning. You could do the same job that 75% of the ones in that set do with a single right handed holder for the CCGT and CCMT inserts which will face and turn without swapping tools.

Something like this, check 8mm will fit your lathe. https://www.shop-apt.co.uk/apt-95-sclcrl-lathe-turning-tools-for-ccmt-inserts/sclcr-0808-f06-apt-lathe-turning-tool-for-ccmt-0602-inserts.html

As said get some CCGT inserts, APT sell them in twos to try out.

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

I do use a triangular tip for turning and light facing, similar to the one Jason highlights. I use another using a square tip set at 45 degrees for serious facing and chamfering, this has an extra edge, over the triangle, and I bet i do 95% of my turning with these 2 tools. No need to buy the set, as I bet you would only use 1 or 2.

Chris Gunn

[VicParticipant @vic]

I use standard TNMG 160404 inserts on my little 8 1/2” x 14” lathe. Having six cutting tips and costing a similar price to CCMT inserts they work out at 1/3 the price and work very well. Being a fairly standard insert they are available in a huge range of different types. I use them on steel, stainless steel and aluminium alloy. The only issue is that I had to trim the tool holder down to fit my four way tool post. Easily done with a carbide end mill.

I got my last lot of Aluminium cutting inserts on Amazon but there are even cheaper places.

Edit: I also use the same style TNMG 160404 inserts on my milling machine and get a great finish.

 

 

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I would not use TNMG16 inserts in holders less than 16mm square. The WNMG 06 and WNGT06 are small enough to fit well into 12mm square holders and share the 6 cutting edges with the TNMG type. These are all neutral inserts with square edges which must fit in holders that tip the cutting edge down 7 degrees. Smaller lathes would probably do better with Bernard Towers recommendations although they only have two edges per insert.

The Warco set is of rather primitive design, sets are available that are better.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You can get holders that make use of all 4 corners of CCMT and CCGT inserts. So more corners for your money

[James AParticipant @jamesalford67616]

Thank you for the replies and suggestions.

I did use a 6mm holder with CCGT tips on my Flexispeed for a while, but had wondered whether there were anything more suitable for the larger Warco. Based on the balance of the suggestions here, I shall order a 10mm holder that fits the machine better than the 6mm example and stay with the tips that I have.

I have yet to find a holder that uses the obtuse angle of the inserts, but I shall keep looking.

On a different note, I have found that parting-off with this machine is so much easier than with the Flexispeed. On that, the job was a nightmare, but on the WM180, it is straightforward and painless.

 

James

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Quite frankly the 6mm holder will work fine on the 180 unless you have silly amounts of tool sticking out. I do a lot of the work on my WM280 with 6mm shank tools though do have some 8mm for heavy roughing.

As for tools that use the other corners you want SCBCR for turning diameters and SCBCL for facing.

Give APT a call as I think one of the two 10 x 10 should be the left hand version

https://www.shop-apt.co.uk/apt-75-scbcrl-lathe-turning-tools-for-ccmt-inserts.html

Or JB Cutting Tools has the Right hand listed

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/177715699516?_skw=scbcr&itmmeta=01M3P2QP9EGHPP3S3G1P332X3H&hash=item2960ae5f3c:g:3QgAAeSwp3ZpT~8l

[Neil AParticipant @neila]

I use 8mm square insert holders on both my 180 lathe and the Flexispeed. I have not gone as small as 6mm square.

The Flexispeed only uses the ground finish CCGT060204 and DCGT070204 inserts, 8mm gets me to centre height with minimal shimming. I don’t bother trying to part off on the Flexispeed.

I use 10mm square tooling on the 180 lathe when I have to have more tool overhang. Still using the CCGT060204 and DCGT070204, but also on occasion the CCMT and DCMT versions, depends on the material. I also have some VCMT/VCGT 1103 tooling in 10mm should the need arise.

I didn’t buy any of my tooling in sets, only as required.

I use the insert tooling to save me having to grind up HSS, I only use HSS for specials now.

Just one observation on inserts, the third letter ( M or G) actually refers to a tolerance band. On turning inserts this seems to imply a ground finish, but on milling inserts it might not, you have to check the specification. I got caught out on milling inserts once.

Neil

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

If you use HSS tooling it is an advantage to have a quick change toolpost because each regrind alters the height and adjusting the centre height is easier than shimming. Both of the lathes we have at the museum use common height inserted tooling without any shims and rarely any HSS. Each different diameter boring bar is boxed with a custom made shim.

RDG is another trusted supplier of all sizes of lathe tooling.

[James AParticipant @jamesalford67616]

Thank you for the further suggestions and advice.

Jason: the 6mm tool does work on the Warco, but I find that because is quite small, it needs a lot of packing to get it to centre height and, being narrow, the bolts holding down the tool are not always fully on the tool. I shall look into the links.

Neil: thank you for the information relating to both of my machines.

Old Mart: I did recently explore a QCTP and staying with HSS tools. I find, though, that I cannot grind and sharpen tools consistently. Sometimes, I can get them to cut through steel like a hot knife through butter, yet other times, they just tear and leave a poor surface. This is the main reason that I am leaning towards inserts.

James.

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

Quite frankly the 6mm holder will work fine on the 180 unless you have silly amounts of tool sticking out. I do a lot of the work on my WM280 with 6mm shank tools though do have some 8mm for heavy roughing.

As for tools that use the other corners you want SCBCR for turning diameters and SCBCL for facing.

Give APT a call as I think one of the two 10 x 10 should be the left hand version

https://www.shop-apt.co.uk/apt-75-scbcrl-lathe-turning-tools-for-ccmt-inserts.html

Or JB Cutting Tools has the Right hand listed

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/177715699516?_skw=scbcr&itmmeta=01M3P2QP9EGHPP3S3G1P332X3H&hash=item2960ae5f3c:g:3QgAAeSwp3ZpT~8l

Just a heads up that the item in the JB Cutting tools link is not for CCMT060204 inserts but for the bigger CCMT09T304 inserts, and what you get sent is actually a 10×12 shank.

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