The right tool for the job

[Christian SprogøParticipant @christiansprogo42613]

Hello there. After carefull consideration, and great help and guidance from this forum, i hit the buy now button, and bought myself a lathe.

Now all the tooling for such a machine, that i had lying around, seems to be either 25mm or 20mm shafts, with those little plates you insert with a screw.

The lathe is stated to take 10mm tools, so whats a starter to buy? Is one of those plated sets, that all looks the same, red blue or yellow. Or should i spend the money on a indexable set?

For start ill do some facing on round material, turning down alu and cutting off pieces, So i need a parting tool allso,

Allso, is 10mm and 3/8" the same size??

[Christian SprogøParticipant @christiansprogo42613]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Christian Sprog� on 30/04/2017 23:33:52:

Allso, is 10mm and 3/8" the same size??

.

3/8" = 9.5250 mm

Your toolholder should therefore accept either.

MichaelG.

[Tim ChambersParticipant @timchambers76147]

Buy HSS tools and a cheap bench grinder like this one https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverstorm-263511-150-Bench-Grinder/dp/B002QS0HNY/ref=sr_1_5?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1493592451&sr=1-5&keywords=bench+grinder

Edited By Tim Chambers on 30/04/2017 23:48:32

Edited By Tim Chambers on 30/04/2017 23:49:16

[John ReeseParticipant @johnreese12848]

And buy a white aluminum oxide wheel intended for tool sharpening. Dealers in woodworking tools commonly stock them. The wheels that come with most grinders are junk.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Don't bother with a 'set' of tools as most of them will be some strange shape or make out of putty. Just get one 4in piece of HSS and use both ends. Then look around ebay for a job lot of random HSS bits that don't look too short and come out at less than £1 each which you can mangle into new shapes.
Don't bother with carbine or inserts until you know that you need them owing to the cost and difficulty of sharpening.
Later get one round nosed brazed carbide tool for grotty materials like cast iron sash weights for getting under the skin.

You don't need big 3/8 tools except when you need extra rigidity for long reach. It means you have more to grind off to get the shape. start with 1/4 in and a bit of packing.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Oh dear, I'm going to disagree with m'learned colleagues.

Even if you own a grinding wheel, one of the skills a learner will find difficult at the outset is grinding HSS toolbits. Therefore, I'd suggest that most learners will be better off starting buying a ready made set, such as this one, which has a useful range of shapes that aren't made of putty.

I've never got on well with brazed carbide tipped tools, but indexable are a much better bet. Again, for a beginner with a fast modern lathe, indexable tips solve an absent skills problem. Another advantage If you break a tip is that they are easily changed without disturbing the set-up. Provided you own a fast lathe the main objections to indexable tools are cost and getting the best possible finish in hobby use. I didn't buy a set; I bought a right-hand and a left-hand holder and a small-boring bar. They kept me happy for a year.

Once you've got a feel for what your new lathe can do, then it's time to experiment with hand ground HSS. Don't get me wrong, it's well worth learning how to shape and sharpen HSS: all I'm suggesting is don't make 'not knowing how to' a show-stopper on day one!

Dave

Edit punctuation

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 01/05/2017 10:47:51

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

+1 for Dave's recommendation of tipped tools. But a tangential tool holder is worth having and the bits are easy to grind if you have a jig.

[Christian SprogøParticipant @christiansprogo42613]

Ahhh, i simply Love this forum. I allready have a handfull of hss Pieces, but learning how to shape Them, is not in my emmidiate list. First things firs, i need to learn the lathe, then threading, and down the road, ill do my own hss. But ad og now, my lathe arrives shortly, and i need tools Going to buy some indexable ones, as a set is relative cheap.
What other tools, is the bare minimum, to get a noob startede?

[Anonymous]

It's a mystery to me why people say that grinding HSS lathe tooling is a black art. Sure if you need an accurate shape, size or angle then it needs some thought. But for normal lathe tooling none of that applies. A knife tool is simply three faces with angles that aren't critical. Can somebody explain why that is difficult?

Andrew

[Christian SprogøParticipant @christiansprogo42613]

I now clearly see why tooling is costly, my dear All those nice shiny metal things One can buy for a lathe Not good for me, as i allready want Them All . What about a Quick change toolpost – i can see One being ?ble to set height og tool, without shimming. Are the “cheap” ones Going to Work?

[Christian SprogøParticipant @christiansprogo42613]

I dont think grinding your own hss tools is hard to learn, its just One more thing to learn, and as im a noob and just want to get turning , its sensible to have some tools that Work,Out of the box.

[Stuart BridgerParticipant @stuartbridger82290]

+1 for buying a set of HSS, admittedly there may be a couple in the set that you never use, but it will get you up and running quickly. Then you can follow up by grinding your own. That is what I did when i started. The set from Arc Euro mentioned above is fine.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 01/05/2017 11:32:41:

It's a mystery to me why people say that grinding HSS lathe tooling is a black art. Sure if you need an accurate shape, size or angle then it needs some thought. But for normal lathe tooling none of that applies. A knife tool is simply three faces with angles that aren't critical. Can somebody explain why that is difficult?

Andrew

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a black-art, but I found grinding difficult, not having had a tutor. In no particular order:

• Getting the tool at the right height above the platform
• Not burning the tip
• Keeping the tool at the required angles whilst removing metal
• Not rocking the tool whilst shaping it
• Keeping the edge of the grinding tool in good condition
• Operator has poor hand control
• Lack of confidence due to not having done it before or making mistakes

I'm pleased to say that I can now manage " three faces with angles that aren't critical." without undue difficulty. It took a fair bit of practice though, and I'm still unable to sharpen a twist drill satisfactorily.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 02/05/2017 12:53:36

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Obviously a tutor is helpful but 'Practice makes perfect'.

Tony

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 02/05/2017 12:53:01:

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 01/05/2017 11:32:41:

It's a mystery to me why people say that grinding HSS lathe tooling is a black art. Sure if you need an accurate shape, size or angle then it needs some thought. But for normal lathe tooling none of that applies. A knife tool is simply three faces with angles that aren't critical. Can somebody explain why that is difficult?

Andrew

and I'm still unable to sharpen a twist drill satisfactorily.

Dave

I think I might be able to help you in that department, the only time it gets difficult is when doing very small drills,(need to be very delicate when touching the facets) send me a message if you want me to show you on a bodge-made diagram, I can guarantee a decent cut on any drill, no matter how blunt, by eye and hand, all I need is just an average bench grinder.

The technique is so simple it's unreal, and I learned all of it just by observing how a Sherwood drill was ground and trying to copy the shape.

as I've got a friend who, although is a farmer, has a need for sharpening drills, he's probably poured a hundred quid of the farms budget on a small drill grinding machine and he still can't get decent drills out of it, so he always gets me to do it, I have offered to show him (because i'm not always going to be around!) but I can't take a horse to drink if it don't want to.

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 02/05/2017 16:43:40

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Christian

I find a QCTP. very useful but, to maximise that use, you need lots of toolholders – I have 14 at present! The advantage is that, once set up, it just takes a moment to change tools. In your case, if you are new to this malarkey, I think the QCTP is something for the future when you have gained some experience and know just what you will find useful. A set of pre- shaped tools have the benefit that they come ground to the correct angles ( hopefully!) and all that you will need to do is just touch them up on your bench grinder ( then finish off by hand with a slip stone ) This will give you a good idea of the angles required and, once you have that, you can, if you wish, grind up your own blanks. It pays to take care with grinding your cutting tools – if you have a poor finish on the tool you will put a poor finish on the work. Persevere – it gets easier in time!

Norman

[John ReeseParticipant @johnreese12848]

Many years ago I took a shop class. Before we could use the lathe we had to grind the tool bit we would use. I suggest practicing before you get the lathe.

[john carruthersParticipant @johncarruthers46255]

Christian, I would say buy tooling as you need it for a job.
Sets of tools will always include a few you will never use.

I have one old bit of carbon tool steel which does most of the plain turning.
I have a few bits of 8mm square HSS that are ground to shapes to suit the work I'm doing.
I bought a cheap set of brazed carbide tools which needed grinding before use on a small lathe.
I never bothered with a quick change holder, I don't have to change tools quickly. I just stuck suitable shims to each plain tool. I tried a tangential toolholder; it makes it easier to sharpen with a quick lick on a belt sander, but the cutting point is the same geometry as a plain knife tool.

A 4 jaw chuck or a faceplate is invaluable for holding odd shapes.
A tailstock chuck can hold drills, tools and work pieces.

Have fun

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 01/05/2017 11:32:41:

It's a mystery to me why people say that grinding HSS lathe tooling is a black art.

Andrew

As you and I know it's not that difficult. Maybe because it's messy and you end up black. I usually do.

regards Martin

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Grinding your own HSS tools can be time consuming and you are likely to make a few mistakes at first so I would suggest getting some 6 mm or 1/4 in HSS to start on. You will find it much easier than using 10 mm square as there is much less material to remove ( about 1/3 of the amount) and it will be much quicker. Depending on the shape it should only take a few minutes to make one from scratch and only a few seconds to resharpen. 6 mm tools will be more than adequate for your first turning exercises.

There is a good beginner's guide here

I didn't have anyone to teach me when I started nearly 50 years ago but read a book and got stuck in.

Russell

[Author]

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