J style indicator holders

[BOB BLACKSHAW 1Participant @bobblackshaw1]

Hello, looking on you tube at some American chaps making Stuart models this particular model maker was using a J type indicator fixture for use on a drill or mill for different diameters.

A machinist on you tube in the UK made one but the time taken to make and the complicated design, I would rather purchase one.

I haven’t come across these, not being a machinist they could be common, looking to purchase one they all seem to be sold from the USA .

Is this tool available in the UK or just an American product.

Bob

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

I’m in North America and that’s not a term I’ve heard before that would be related to an indicator fixture. Can you provide a video link and minute mark where it’s shown?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Just look for universal or clamp type indicator holders.

The J style get their name as the clamp fits a J head Bridgeport.

https://www.mscdirect.co.uk/select-universal-indicator-holders

https://www.machine-dro.co.uk/collections/indicator-clamps-bases-accessories/products/edge-technology-indicator-holder-with-quill-clamp-mount

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

Possibly Bob means an Indicol type? Here that’s usually what there referred to since Indicol invent them. https://www.traverscanada.com/product/indicol-178-indicator-mounting-accessory-85-201-178

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Blame it on Mr Pie for calling it a J style. The old 178 Indicol had “Style S ” on the box

Hw calls it J style in the description

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Thanks to Ketan for the one I have.

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

I had one of these a few years back, and to be perfectly honest I generally found it more trouble than it was worth. It was very fiddly to set and only seemed vaguely rigid enough if you tightened the thumb wheels with the strength of Hercules.

Usually went back to magnetic base, one upright shaft and sliding adjustable arm thingy.

Mike

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

A bit fiddly to make, but Ade from “Ades workshop” made a version of the the Stefan Goteswinters low profile DTI holder.  Might be worth looking at.

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

I designed the one in the link below  for “rough” use on the mill.

 

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:7134989

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

A bit of resilient padding, “rubber” sheet et al, in the big Vee significantly reduces the amount of force needed on the grip screw for satisfactory results. Replacing the standard round pusher on the screw with a smaller Vee, also resiliently padded, reduces the effort even more but is more inconvenient to use because the Vee on the screw has to be rotated to the correct angle to sit on the quill. The smaller Vee isn’t as easy to make as you’d ideally like either as it needs to be retained via a rotating joint so the screw can be done up.

My Bridgeport has a handy boss with a hole and locking thumb screw in it that has worked well to permanently mount one of the smaller versions of the cheap import, single knob locking, folding and rotating style indicator carrier arms.

Tucks in neatly so as not to interfere with the quill handle when not in use.

Extends far enough so the indicator can cover most jobs :-

And in my case also serves to hold the Bjur Spraymist coolant nozzle :-

There are times when it simply won’t reach so a mag base has to come out but it does for maybe 90% of jobs.

I’m sure a suitable permanent boss modification could be arranged on most machines given a bit of low cunning and ingenuity.

Prior to getting the one knob arm I initially used a simple rod with a pair of thumbscrew blocks. Later I stole the adjuster arm from my cheapest mag base indicator holder to use in a similar manner fitted via an adapter block on a short pin which made setting up easier.  Both were less convenient and couldn’t be left on all the time hence I bought the one knob arm around 12 to 15 years back.

Clive

[John PurdyParticipant @johnpurdy78347]

I bought one of those many years ago from TTC ( Pete’s link,although listed as “Indicol” was a Chinese copy and at the time was about $38,) and found it next to useless, way too flexible, as Mike Hurley says, to get reliable readings. The contact points on the frame weren’t flat, the plastic end to the screw was too soft, and plastic washers on the joints on the arm made for a less than solid clamping arrangement. so it went back in the box for a number of years till I decided something had to be done to modify it. My mods consisted of, replacing the plastic tip on the screw with an aluminum one, clamping the body to the mill table and using a boring head set to the dia. of the mill outer spindle cleaned up the two pads that bear on the spindle so they were flat (slightly concave) and at 90 deg to the body. Got rid of the flexible arms and replaced them with a solid post, actually a few of different sizes, to take the arms off my mag base and to screw an indicator directly to. Now I find it works well and it gets used regularly. The pics probably show it better.

John

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

One of the advantages of the modern benchtop mills is the sides and underside of the heads are flat so easy to stick a small mag base where ever you need it.

And I sometimes use one of these to locate round items. Though mostly do it with edge finder and DRO

[jimmy b]

On jimmy b Said:

I designed the one in the link below  for “rough” use on the mill.

 

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:7134989

Well, I’m going to have to give it a go just because. Thanks, Jimmy

I too find the Chinese (presumably) Indicol knock-offs irritatingly un-rigid. I replaced the plastic clamping pad with a brass one, and made new parts for the first adjustable thingy (the steel coloured bits in the photo below).

It’s a considerable improvement, but still leaves something to be desired. The Machine-DRO one looks like it might be better but at the price, it starts getting tempting to make one from scratch.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

I admire Jasons confidence in that little pot-magnet base holder.

But after discovering how easily an Eclipse made version of similar size and style could slide around upon a horizontal surface there is no way I’d be confident with an indicator hanging on an upside down one.

Although the surface might appear “flat” it may well be painted and filled seriously reducing magnetic adhesion. Even if a bare metal surface, unless it’s an actual well finished slide-way surface, there is strong chance that the surface isn’t good enough for full adhesion on the whole base area.

Muggins experimented and was surprised by the variation in holding power of the little Eclipse on different, although still respectable looking, surfaces. I don’t recall the grip ever being low enough for me to pull it straight off but I’d need to be very sure that the surface was good enough not to easily slide. My little Eclipse is very useful for a number of things but hanging an indicator off it isn’t one.

But I can afford to be “Inspector Meticulous” as I’ve managed over the years to afford a number of mag bases. Ordinary guy or gal in the shop may not be so lucky due to the almost inevitable need to prioritise limited hobby funding elsewhere.

As ever the rule is check and verify the set-up before following.

Don’t assume that what others have had success with will inevitably work for you.

Generally anything advocated by a reliable source will. But sometimes events and situations conspire against you. One of the advantages of considerable age is having had more time to encounter the, hopefully uncommon, situations when Lawyer Murphy and the Gremlin Squad have you in their sights.

There is a reason why mag base holders with on-off switches are made the way they are with relatively narrow contact surfaces which both concentrates the magnetic forces but also make it possible to slide about a bit to get maximum contact on inadequate surfaces.

Clive bought his small dial Verdict for discount price at the 1975 Model Engineer Exhibition expecting it to be lifetime purchase. Going well so far. Back then it was a stretch to afford on first job money, now I have other indicators and dial gauges but it’s still my favourite. I’d be sad to break it by being careless or rush headed.

Drifting a touch off topic.

As mag bases go this is overkill for most of us and ought to be secure, :-

170 lb (ish) holding force from a base over 2″ square with a 3/4″ diameter pillar.

But Clive still habitually checks and got the shock of his life, approaching two decades ago, the one time it did slide ! Objectively a good wake-up call thing as he’d gotten a bit perfunctory about the verification business “I know it’s OK” in rather too many areas.

Clive

[John PurdyParticipant @johnpurdy78347]

Many years ago Guy Lautard had a design for one in one of his books, “The Machinists Bedside Reader” I think. I copied the plans out planning to make it but then found the one for 30 odd dollars so bought it instead. In hind sight I should have made it!

John

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Well all I can say is that with 80 odd engines running, I’m confident that my little mag bases do the job from setting the mill vice to clocking small items in the 4-jaw and a whole lot more. Bigger items in the 4-jaw get a plunger type gauge with a switchable mag base. Sometimes I’ll use both

[BOB BLACKSHAW 1Participant @bobblackshaw1]

Having a look on e-bay I found a cheap one from  Machine DRO £12.50, Its worth a try at that price and most properly modify it as by the comments that the clamping thumb wheels are not that good.

Viewing these youtube videos I’m picking up some good tips, Ive have been using a pin wobbler on the lathe when using the four jaw chuck but it never entered my mind on the mill when picking up holes to zero in on.

Thanks for the in-depth replies.

Bob

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If accurate results are to be achieved, rigidity is essential.

So minimum overhang, and in the case of measuring instruments, minimal number of joints.

Firm (if that’s the right word!) believer in a mag base with minimal overhangs, like many others on here.

Howard

[BOB BLACKSHAW 1Participant @bobblackshaw1]

Hello , I received in the post the holder from DRO and there’s no plastic on it even the thumb screws are steel. I haven’t tried it out but looks very well made and only £12 including the post, made in China, bonkers.

Bob

 

 

 

[Clive Foster]

On Clive Foster Said:

…the Vee on the screw has to be rotated to the correct angle to sit on the quill.

We need an enterprising engineer who can design a miniature south-pointing chariot mechanism for it.

[Author]

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