Surplus subjects learnt at school.

[John Paton 1Participant @johnpaton1]

I also ditched Latin and took up German instead.

It had been drummed into me that Agricola amat Puella ( the farmer loved the girl?) which wisely taught me not to leave my daughter unattended when on holiday in the Italian countryside. Not sure the towns were any safer in that regard, so maybe the problem has spread into the cities since the days of Caesar?

German has been of some value when visiting countries to the East of France where German rather than English tends to be their second language.

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

I went to King Edward VI Grammar school in Southampton, between 59 and 64. We sat 14 "O" Levels, the only subjects I was any good at were Maths, English, Tech Drawing and Woodwork, passable at Physics, Biology. After leaving school I found myself studying pretty much full time, albeit on a part time basis up to my mid 40s. The only thing that I was stumped by was Calculus, funnily enough when I was a ships Draughtsman I had a need for it, and got a "Calculus for Dummies" book which helped!!

All in all although I didn't enjoy my time at school at the time, my dear old Dad was quite right when he said that I would look back on my schooldays with fond memories.

cheers

Bill

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

My school only let the lowest streams take lessons in the woodwork/metalwork shop and i'd have way preferred to be doing that than latin – which was the only exam I ever failed. I did top up to the standard 8 O-levels by addng Art O-level while taking my three A's,
Nevertheless i agree that Latin did give a grounding in understanding grammar and the root derivation of many words. Perhaps classical Greek would have rounded that out.

[colin branniganParticipant @colinbrannigan54160]

Well

I failed the 11+ and went to secondary modern school as they were called back then and ended up in the lower streams as people refer to them, had four hour lessons of woodwork, craft or gardening, a few maths and english lessons and of course Welsh, no Latin or Greek for us.

I really hated school, I had/have a severe stammer which everyone found quite funny including the teachers so was always the fool in the class, but I got through the four years and got myself a place on a pre- apprenticeship course at a local college of further education, end of year got myself a choice of four apprenticeships, picked the toolmaker one as recommended by a neighbour.

Failed G1 and ended up on MECP course, which my lectures thought I was more suited to and so it turned out I have been a toolmaker for 52 years, never been out of work, always earned good money. and always loved the job which is quite important.

Colin

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

However did you fit 14 subjects into the timetable, I remember my limited range being enough what with the horrible rugby and athletics wasting hours of the afternoon.

Sad thing is once you get A levels nobody cares about your Os and once you get a degree the As are of no consequence.
But put something on a social media site, especially if controversial, and it can haunt you for ever apparently. I expect something like 'media studies' is now a common GCSE subject and perhaps the one todays kids won't have considered surplus when they retire.

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

OK not at school but at ten years old I actually BECAME a surplice subject when mother insisted I joined the church choir.

Rik

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

My embarrassing Latin unseen translation involed a long paragraph about the wings of the army sweeping across China and several words with which i wasn't familiar.
Sadly I mistranslated the first part as a bull in a china shop and made the rest up as it rampaged through breaking various plates and vases rather than sacking towns and villages…..

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

In retrospect, none of the subjects were 'surplus', although it didn't seem like it at the time. Some of the teaching was, however, dire: how is one expected to learn a language from grammar text-books and vocabulary lists? What is the point of being expected to be able to recite 'the dates' of the kings and queens of England? However, I wish I'd paid more attention to the non-science subjects that didn't come easily – they seem so much more interesting now. I was told to 'try harder', but what did that mean? No-one ever explained…

Edited By Kiwi Bloke on 20/07/2019 10:47:18

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Kiwi Bloke on 20/07/2019 10:46:21:

In retrospect, none of the subjects were 'surplus', although it didn't seem like it at the time. Some of the teaching was, however, dire: how is one expected to learn a language from grammar text-books and vocabulary lists? What is the point of being expected to be able to recite 'the dates' of the kings and queens of England? However, I wish I'd paid more attention to the non-science subjects that didn't come easily – they seem so much more interesting now. I was told to 'try harder', but what did that mean? No-one ever explained…

Edited By Kiwi Bloke on 20/07/2019 10:47:18

That's fair comment half-a-world and a folded Empire away, but I find that, although my knowledge of dates is in some cases imprecise within a decade or two, I do have a reasonable view of the main movements of history as a result – though of course from a strongly British perspective.

At the time,however, it seemed deadly dull and gruelling when Fat Harry dished out a list of dates at the start of a lesson, we spent half the period learning it, then the second half doing a written test. <where's the yawn emoji, then?>

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

I don't think that any O-level(whatever they are now) subject is surplus, because they're still at the basic principle stage. So a useful education requires a range of subjects:

Humanities are about looking at data and expressing conclusions clearly and concisely – the actual subject is unimportant.

Languages develop skills in doing that. No school can teach a foreign language the way you learnt your native one, so it's done in a structured way of introducing vocabulary and grammar.

Sciences are about how the world works.

Maths. Arithmetic is a day to day thing, and everybody should have a grounding in how numbers are used to bamboozle them.

Practical subjects – these teach how to use tools to solve problems. Once you've learnt that(wood/metal/needle/etc- work) you'll be able to try anything

Sports. Should be about learning what you can do, both as an individual and as a team. Probably the worst taught subject.

Yes, that's all ideallistic but you've got to start somewhere.

Heinlein summed it up: Specialisation is for insects.

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[Guy LambParticipant @guylamb68056]

Like Colin Brannigan above I failed the 11+ all so, our Secondary Modern was just like the one Billy Casper attended in 'A Kestrel for a Knave' but without all the frills. In wet weather (most days in Cumbria) the first years spent their time 'on bucket patrol' that is too say positioning/emptying buckets underneath the leaking roof. At that time if you were thought capable enough a suggestion would be made to your parents along the lines of ' he/she is capable of attaining some O levels but the county won't pay for them and they will have to be sat outside school time so if you can afford the fee it may be a good idea'. Needless to say most of us left at 15 or 16 without any qualifications just 'A good standard of secondary education' asked for by the two largest employers in the area.

Latin no, but I'm quiet good at industrial swearing.

Guy

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

At Grammar school, I hated French and Religious Indoctrination, football was avoided by getting lost somewhere else, summer was athletics.

English Literature was boring and famously said, when asked what was my favourite novel? I do not read fiction!

Woodwork but no metal work, but maths (all sorts) and science subjects were the best. For some reason (probably cost) we were not allowed to take more then 10 "O" Levels.

[Swarf, Mostly!Participant @swarfmostly]

First of all, my apologies to NDIY for misreading his post.

On the subject of Latin, I was in the Latin stream from 2nd form to 5th form. We were taught (with varying degrees of success) both Latin language and Latin literature.

The only remaining trace of the latter is a line from Catullus, 'Alas, my purse is full of cobwebs'. Now, why ever should that line have remained in my memory?

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

[John Duncker 1Participant @johnduncker1]

I was involved in education and found myself co-opted onto an exam board looking to update the school curriculum. This was mostly because I had been a very outspoken critic of the inclusion of things like Latin and Greek. This was in the late 80s and PC computers were affordable.

It seemed to me to be very obvious that touch typing would be a useful and transferable skill and should be taught in schools. I also put forward that cursive or joined up handwriting should not be taught as part of the general compulsory curriculum but as an option.

I put this forward at large meeting of school heads. It was not well received. In fact about 3/4s of the hall stood up and HOWLED at me. It was as if I had proposed vivisection on the school cat.

It was amazing how many of the heads followed up with handwritten letters in beautiful cursive insisting on the retention of cursive in the school curriculum.

My suggestion was not adopted.

But over the years I have watched with interest the dropping of cursive as a compulsory subject and touch typing creeping into the class room.

I was also involved in looking at alternative routes into degree level courses with a number of admission tutors. It rapidly became clear that of all the topics required maths was almost the only one that could not be successfully taught in remedial classes.

I am part of the group that think that there is a time in the brains development during which the language of mathematics can be acquired. It is around 12 years of age. Few people older than 16 can successfully acquire a good understanding of maths.

I watch with some despair as the maths syllabus is dumbed down in many schools and even universities.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

I didn't do Latin at O level. The only disadvantage was that I was barred from Oxbridge entry, despite extremely high marks in the Scholarship papers. The requirement for Latin was dropped two or three years later.

In retrospect, I am extremely glad that I didn't do Latin! Pity that there were no metal work facilities at my school.

Andrew.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Bazyle on 19/07/2019 22:14:02:

I don't count speaking my mother tongue as still using a school subject but do notice that my vocabulary is in advance of most people at work, even the ones who are English, which is partly due to my knowledge of Latin. BTW you needed 'Use of English' as an extra exam for Oxbridge.

Perhaps not for speaking, but reading and writing is definitely a skill. Reading exactly what it says and/or recognising the deliberate omissions is of importance when it comes to properly understanding texts – particularly advertising media.

Writing is important in that one should be able to impart no ambiguity, unless added to befuddle those that are not so proficient at reading texts accurately (enter the realms of advertising and lobbying)

I passed my ‘Proficiency in the Use of English’ – even though I dodged more than half the lessons (I opted to take metalwork lessons – although with no intention of achieving any certification). I think the Head (he delivered the use of english lessons) was likely pleased that I was not in those lessons, as I asked awkward questions).

I believed, at the time, it was going to be introduced as part of all degree entry qualifications, not just Oxbridge. This was in 1967. Unfortunately a majority of the humanities students (particularly those taking ’A’ level English) actually failed – mostly because they supplied a précis of a text text instead of writing a short summary, as requested. A simple case of not reading the question!

As for maths – I always say that I cannot do difficult maths so only do simple maths. Maths to GCSE pass level (grade C) can almost all be accomplished with simple maths.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by not done it yet on 20/07/2019 18:21:26:

[ … ] This was in 1967. Unfortunately a majority of the humanities students (particularly those taking ’A’ level English) actually failed – mostly because they supplied a précis of a text text instead of writing a short summary, as requested. A simple case of not reading the question!

.

Interesting [is it not?] that the evolution of language means they might now pass …

**LINK**

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english-thesaurus/precis

MichaelG.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

I attended a small Yorkshire Grammar School in the late 1950’s. The most subjects I could have taken was eight – provided I stayed in the A stream. I didn’t, so the quantity was reduced to seven, the Maths syllabus was changed (no Calculus, I think) and fortunately, a different Maths teacher. Of the seven subjects, I only passed three – Maths, Physics & Geography, and failed English Language, English Literature, French & one other subject which I cannot for the life of me remember what it was. Along the way I took, and dropped, Latin, History, Chemistry, Art & possibly RE. Metalwork/Woodwork was only taught for the first four years, but it did give me an initial introduction to engineering.

At the end of the five years, I left school, applied to join the General Post Office as an apprentice telephone engineer, and following a suggestion from the Youth Employment Office applied to the CEGB and the local electricity board, YEB. YEB didn’t want me, CEGB said yes provided I got four O levels to include English, whilst the GPO had it’s own entrance exam and wasn’t the least bit concerned about O level results. I duly had a career with the GPO/POT/BT ending up as an exchange dimensioning and routing planning manager.

So, what was of use for me. Maths & Physics gave me a pass into the second year of the City & Guilds Telecoms Technicians Course and ultimately I obtained the top level Full Technological Certificate in Electronics & Telephony. I have never missed the lack of an English O level pass: indeed some years ago I astounded a lady with a Phd in English Literature who commended me for my writing abilities. Woodwork/Metalwork gave me an insight into constructional methods in both subjects which eventually became of use in a personal capacity, ie DIY. The one and only time I could have used French my mind went completely blank!!! Latin was of some use mainly for pronunciation when I was singing, whilst the rest was of no use whatsover.

Peter G. Shaw

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

Slightly off topic Bill, but …

One subject surplus to requirements was my earliest wake-up call. It was soon to follow my 11+ failure. The specific moment was when I became partly responsibility for the breakage of two 12" wooden rules.

Clenched together in her fist, Miss Pickford swung them down hard while the knuckles of my left hand got in the way. Both pieces of wood broke in two. Cleverly, she avoided my ‘write’ hand, although clearly, she was unaware of sweet spots, angular velocity, the distribution of mass, or even fibre strength.

The reason for my involvement … ?

I was a dreamer, and during an arithmetic exercise of long division (of Lsd*) having, in contemplation, chewed most of the wood off my pen, I had completed just one ‘sum’ for the whole morning. Where had the time (and tasty wood) gone?

Did such common vehemence of the day guide me later in life when I was awarded “Fellow of Institutes X & Y”?

Sam

(*) Pounds, shillings, and pence.

Edited By Sam Stones on 22/07/2019 02:09:27

[Andy CarruthersParticipant @andycarruthers33275]

The subjects I enjoyed most were those taught by engaging personable teachers with a genuine concern for their pupils and where the subject matter coincided with my own admittedly narrow personal interests. Despite an interrupted secondary education – two grammar schools with a comprehensive in the middle – I was always destined to be a Jack of All trades

How I wish the Internet had been widely available and accessible 10 years before it was, I try to learn "something new" every day – I dread the prospect of retiring but welcome the prospect of being able to spend time on things I enjoy

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

My big regret about school is that computing wasn't offered as an examined subject. I guess the logistics of delivering our punched tape programs to the local technical college then collecting the printouts a couple of days later prevented there being more than one lesson a week. I heard the school got a terminal the year after I left.

I eventually made up for it by getting a degree in Computing and IT nearly 40 years later.

Brian

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember53456]

[This posting has been removed]

[HowiParticipant @howi]

why do so many people dread the prospect of retirement? Just before I retired, I was asked numerous times what on earth I was going to do with my time. I really enjoyed my work the whole 49 years ( without a break).

I just find it so sad that people do not know what they are going to do with themselves once work stops.

I can now do what I want when I want (or not as the case may be). I can take on new activities as well as carry on with exsting ones. I can spend quality time with my new grandchildren (then hand them back at the end of the day!)

Only subject I found a waste of time was Religious Education, I went to a secondary modern so was considered factory fodder, metalwork was chosen over woodwork in my first year and never regretted it, looking forward to Wednesday afternoons for the rest of my school time. Like Peter above, I too joined the Post Office Telephones as an aprentice, after a number of years doing tech courses at tech college I switched over to the Open University. Best thing I ever did, 6 of the best years education I ever had. All in all a good all round education for me as I can turn my hand to many tasks rather than specialise in just one, you don't get as bored either.

Only latin I ever used was taken off a toilet door on my first residential training course for BT, Nil illigitum carborundum and one I had on as my work screen saver a good few years later – Uno Lotto Victorum et perceptus rectum terra.

My chief fire officer happened to be looking over my shoulder and saw the screen save message and wanted to know what it meant – One good win on the lottery and you won't see my arse for dust.

first time I had seen him smile!

Edited By Howi on 22/07/2019 13:16:31

[Author]

Posts