Spanners for use on BSP fittings

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Having had a motor failure on my oil fired central heating. I have had to undo several BSP fittings to remove the motor.  I never have the correct spanner for these things, although I have Whitworth, AF and Metric spanners. None of them fit and I have to put up with a slightly oversize spanner, which do not do the fittings any long term good!

Simple question, are there dedicated BSP spanners? I certainly can’t find any using Google, but maybe I am using the wrong terms. I am fed up of bodging and would willingly invest in a set of BSP spanners, if such exist. I would expect to be paying way over the odds as they seem to be as rare as the proverbial Rocking Horse manure!

 

Andrew.

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

Sorry, can’t help directly, but perhaps the lack of a standard for the nut dimensions ( I can’t find reference to one) explains why most plumbers I have experience of seem to carry, and mainly use, a set of adjustables!

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

A big Barco wrench, or Stillson wrench both of which are available from almost any tool outlet, Scewfix, Tool station, B&Q and many more. All available up to about 900mm in length so have wide jaws. I suggest you take your time otherwise you easily do a lot of damage with slipping spanner and skin been missing. Also, if your spanner jaws are to wide apart fit a sliver of folded tin inside the jaws or a bit of sheet steel, as the trawler men do, fit all that way.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

I’m afraid that I often resort to a (nice quality) adjustable spanner, or even when really desperate slip jaw pliers.

BSP is also referred to as G in Europe and is widely used – hence I wouldn’t be surprise to see hex sizes in mm, or inch, and maybe some non-preferred hex size…

[DC31kParticipant @dc31k]

What do you mean by a ‘BSP fitting’?

Even something as common as 15mm and 22mm compression nuts, which are supposed to be a standard size, vary between fittings.

Union nuts should be a standard size (but even then, there appear to be two standards, with some of them octagonal and some hexagonal).

Do you have a set of calipers? Measure the fitting and use a file on the nearest lower spanner to tune it to the size you need.

I have never heard of Barco – sounds like a canine product. Berndt August Hjorth would be turning in his grave at the thought. Bahco, however, is an established manufacturer of adjustable spanners, at premium prices. Draper Expert black oxide finish adjustable spanners are very good value for money.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

I have both stilsons and very large adjustable spanners. and everything in between that and an 8mm adjustable I am talking about the much smaller BSP sizes which very very roughly are about 1/2″ and 3/4″

.I don’t want anymore bodging with bits of tin etc If I can’t buy these spanners commercially. then it looks like I am going to have to make them myself or modify an undersize spanner to make it fit.

I can’t understand people still making these fittings with no spanners available, seems senseless to me.

Andrew.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I have a couple of the Monument “compression fitting spanners” bought from screwfix, don’t use them as much as an adjustable or footprint type grips but they do come in handy on occasions. They do both cheap stamped out ones and better forged ones

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

If they are genuine BSP they wil;l be whitworth if B and Q its anybodys guess!!!

[Andy StopfordParticipant @andystopford50521]

I think it’s down to poor quality control/don’t care if it’s about right, on many plumbing fittings sold nowadays. They approximate to Whitworth a/f dimensions, but the approximation can be pretty vague.

My plumbing tool bag includes Whitworth open-ended, various adjustables (including Stlllsons and King Dick), water pump pliers and some special ones for basins and the like, and I still find myself rooting around for something that will just about fit, and work in the usual ridiculously awkward spaces. I think all plumbing should be exposed, not hidden away to make life difficult – and don’t get me started on solvent weld vs. push fit waste pipe incompatibility (I had a couple of awkward plumbing jobs this week…)

[bernard towers]

On bernard towers Said:

If they are genuine BSP they will be Whitworth…

What is genuine and non-genuine BSP?

In Europe, where they use ISO 7 pipe fittings, would they be metric and require a different spanner size?

Would you consider ISO 7 fittings as genuine BSP?

To me, and purely as a wry dig at the Yanks, I would only ever consider NPT as non-genuine BSP.

On the issue of genuine and non-genuine, this topic has had stilson, stillson and stilllson mentioned. Which of these fine nut-mangling contraptions is the original and best?

[Andrew Tinsley]

On Andrew Tinsley Said:

[…]

.I don’t want anymore bodging with bits of tin etc If I can’t buy these spanners commercially. then it looks like […]

Admirable sentiment, Andrew

… what rather surprised me, when I came [late] to this Topic, is that no-one seems to have yet mentioned Flank-Drive spanners.

If I am mistaken, then I’m sure someone will correct me.

MichaelG.

[Michael Gilligan]

On Michael Gilligan Said:

On Andrew Tinsley Said:

[…]

.I don’t want anymore bodging with bits of tin etc If I can’t buy these spanners commercially. then it looks like […]

Admirable sentiment, Andrew

… what rather surprised me, when I came [late] to this Topic, is that no-one seems to have yet mentioned Flank-Drive spanners.

If I am mistaken, then I’m sure someone will correct me.

MichaelG.

I’d like a set of Metrinch spanners (not so much for plumbing, but just to reduce the number of the things to carry around), but even if you can find them, they are not cheap..

[Andy Stopford]

On Andy Stopford Said:

…….  think all plumbing should be exposed, not hidden away to make life difficult – and don’t get me started on solvent weld vs. push fit waste pipe incompatibility (I had a couple of awkward plumbing jobs this week…)

100% #2 son has a stupid mixer tap for the bath, it is mounted on splashback with the pipes behind, then the bath plonked in front and the outer corners mated to more splashback on the walls at 90 degrees, so you can’t get at the pipes without destroying the splashback. The pipes were channelled into the wall, so when it sprang a leak (well known for this type of tap according to the emergency plumber) it ran down the cavity and wrecked the decorations. What should have been a hundred quid to fix will be thousands. Fortunately it is covered by insurance

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Aren’t flank drive spanners/sockets still size specific but just drive on the flats not the points?

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

For this type of fitting and other delicate items like odd sized coaxial connectors, I have a pair of Knipex “plier-wrench” https://www.knipex.com/products/pipe-wrenches-and-water-pump-pliers/pliers-wrenches-pliers-and-a-wrench-in-a-single-tool/pliers-wrenches-pliers-and-wrench-single-tool/8603150

Parallel action, smooth faces and locking coarse adjustment. They also do soft covers for the faces.
Very high quality and priced to match, around £40. Mine are never used on rough surfaces. They do larger and smaller sizes.
Coaxial (radio) connectors are a whole other world. Fortunatly most are standard sizes across flats. However most are soft metal and a lot have narrow access. Good quality thin spanners are expensive. The Precision connectors need a torque wrench. I have a small selection of spanners reserved for connectors…

Robert.

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

With all the bathroom and kitchen plumbing jobs I have done, and any other job for that matter, I always try to keep in mind that someone might have to revisit this thing at some time and, in all probability, that somebody will be me! Obviously, it’s not always possible to arrange everything to be open and easily accessible but with a little forethought the re-instatement needed can be reduced to a minimum.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

If you have space for access, I’ve found Cromna the best adjustable spanners around.
No longer made, but they do crop up on eBay, auto-jumbles & steam rallies etc.
There’s 4 sizes, and yes, the smallest should be that shape on the end, I’m guessing as a bicycle tyre lever.
There’s a few photos either side in the album

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Maybe worth looking into the proper pipe / flare nut spanners of the hex with one corner cutout variety. I imagine the metric ones will be sufficiently close to any BSP fitting to provide a good enough fit. Something I need to investigate next time I go plumbing.

Needing to undo some aluminium unions to replace the oil cooler and air-conditioning condenser on my P38 Range Rover I splashed out on some proper pipe spanners. Having done the open ended spanner on alloy unions thing once before an been darn lucky to massage the unions back into shape I wasn’t gonna risk that second time.

US Pro set for the small ones and a pair of Gedore for the big unions on the transmission oil cooler. £40 a pop for the Gedore ones hurt, half list price too,  but I’m certain any attempt to use an open ended would have distorted the unions beyond salvation or even undoing in the first place. Still pulled the alloy threads on the oil cooler out with the unions which was no great worry as I planned to replace both pipes anyway. Until I discovered that the gearbox end of one appeared completely inaccessible with the box in the car so I had to clean out the cooler end union. Not easy but we got there.

I was very surprised that the mobile air-con repairer guy didn’t have the proper spanners and pulled out ordinary open ended spanners to remove the unions with. Which absolutely wasn’t going anywhere on my car as I’d already had to re-circularise the unions from last time. At least he had the grace to admit the proper spanners made things go much easier.

Gedore claim their spanners are more accurately made that other breeds. I checked. They are.

Clive

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

BSP seems murky.  In my sources Across Flats measurements either aren’t mentioned at all or are given in millimetres.  I guess it’s because the standard is for a pipe thread, not a fastener, and the AF dimension is decided by the needs of the fitting, not the thread.  The choice is down to the manufacturer, hence plumbers are fond of adjustable spanners and pipe-wrenches.

Although BSP is clearly inspired by Whitworth in that it has the same 55° rounded crest and valley form,  it isn’t Whitworth compatible.   The diameters are different, and BSP is often tapered too!

Dave

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

I have spanners from 10 BA to 60mm for engineering work but for pipework I have an assortment of stilsons and Bahcos in sizes up to 24″ ! Plumbers seem to use various sorts of adjustable or specials made by footprint or monument brand. Small sizes seem to be whit/BSF sizes. Never seen true BSP spenners ? Cutting undersizes to fit is your best bet. Noel.

[bernard towers]

On bernard towers Said:

Aren’t flank drive spanners/sockets still size specific but just drive on the flats not the points?

If you think about the geometry … they can obviously accommodate a modest range of A/F dimensions.

MichaelG.

.

Some helpful illustrations on this page:

https://the-shed.nz/size-matters-2/

 

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, apart from Basin spanners and those used for immersion heaters, and any special types, I don’t think there is any run of the mill spanners specifically known as BSP. Some fittings will fit metric/imperial common sizes of spanners, but it will largely depend on who makes the fittings. Stillson’s, adjustable spanners, and water pump pliers, all come in a range of sizes, as do quick adjustable wrenches, all of which I’ve used in my day jobs, and I’ve got a least one of every size in the standard range of Stillson’s.

The blue Stillson is an 8″, and the small adjustable is a 100mm, the large water pump plier, will open to just over 60mm. The quick adjustable at the top will open to 75mm, but the jaws are only 30mm deep.

Regards Nick.

[bernard towers]

On bernard towers Said:

Aren’t flank drive spanners/sockets still size specific but just drive on the flats not the points?

Yes. All the other miracle things they’re alleged to do is just marketing for the gullible/desperate.

Real plumbers never worry about the ‘right’ spanner unless there isn’t room to use an adjustable

[Nick Wheeler]

On Nick Wheeler Said:

On bernard towers Said:

Aren’t flank drive spanners/sockets still size specific but just drive on the flats not the points?

Yes. All the other miracle things they’re alleged to do is just marketing for the gullible/desperate.

[…]

Well that’s me “corrected” …

… not sure if I am accused of being gullible or desperate… but they certainly work to my satisfaction.

MichaelG.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Not sure Flank Drive will work on “Conex” compression nuts which have the six lumps and are not hexagonal. The Monument/footprint ones I linked to will work on these as well as hex 15mm and 22mm compression nuts.

[Author]

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