moving a mill

[jason spencerParticipant @jasonspencer41535]

Hi all.

I've finally been to see a bridgeport mill that i'm happy with(ex brabham f1), however the dilemma i've got is how to move it in my garage.

It'll arrive on a pallet, however its going to go in a corner so;

A: how would I get it off a pallet in my garage if its going into a corner?

B: Is this the best way to move it in my garage?

C: Would I be better trying to roll it on a pallet truck then working out a way to get it off that

D: Get some scaffold tube and roll it on that into position?

 

I can't for the life of me think what is the best option… I do have a car engine crane in the garage but it's only for upto 500kg.

 

 

Edited By jason spencer on 04/02/2013 14:15:47

[jason spencerParticipant @jasonspencer41535]

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Simples.

Push it into the corner with a pallet truck then set fire to the pallet, as the pallet burns away it settles on the floor.

Only joking.

[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

With an engine lift I'd probably break it down into smaller parts and reassemble in place. That would give you a chance to check out some internals and clean/adjust/lubricate where necessary. However I'm just beginner with machine tools so perhaps somebody with more experience can offer some better advice. Good luck with the new toy Jason

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Hi Jason,

When moving a friend's new-to-him used BP, we had to get it off a pallet, down a 50 foot grass/earth/flagstone garden path, up a 7" step and across his concrete shop floor. We made portable ramps and "railway" of arc welded 1 1/2" angle (bought used at a scrapyard) with the v point upward on angle iron ties/sleepers to get the machine off the pallet and down the garden. We used solid wood cribbing under the ramps at the pallet and step along the ramp's slope for good support. Tops of the rails were greased lightly. Once on the rails the mill slid easily, pushed/levered and guided with crowbars and a few people. Once up the ramp at the step, we rolled it onto steel tubing rollers, then levered it off the tubes at the final destination. Gentle slopes on the ramps made the shifting force minimal, no one had any heavy lifts at all, and the 'railway' was very stable – never seemed like any tipping risk at any time.

The angle iron stood up well to the weight and the V points of the rails had low friction with the cast iron base of the mill.

Many pints were needed AFTER the mill was in place. This was a significant expense relative to the otherwise low cost materials used.

Good luck with yours.

[MAX THE MILLERParticipant @maxthemiller]

I 've moved a big mill off a pallet quite recently and it was a lot easier than I thought it would be.

Lower the head as much as possible to keep the C of G down. Get a big "Gorilla Bar" from Machine Mart. Use this to slide the machine off the pallet on to two piles of packing the same height as the pallet. Using rollers (I found 1" diameter bar to be good), or greasing the pallet may help. Do everything slowly.

Once the machine is on the packing use the gorilla bar to lift the machine off each pile of packing in turn and slide out one piece of packing. Repeat until all packing has been removed and the machine is on the ground.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

If not already in the transport position, invert the head. This seriously lowers the C of G

Basic machine weigh about 1000Kg, rather more than your 500Kg engine crane can cope with.

If you follow Max the Miller, make sure the steps of packing are small to limit the lean over.

Myself?  I made a welded frame, bolted the mill to it and have removable wheel sets for it, I can move it anywhere on my own on a level floor. I just use small adjustable feet to lift it off the wheels and then remove wheels.

Edited By KWIL on 04/02/2013 15:47:43

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Jason, Assuming you are on a solid, concrete or similar surface, there is a large tapped hole in the top slide for attaching a lifting eye, if you use this and have access to a farm tractor with fork lift [local farmer friend?] you can lift it off the pallet and onto rollers. A digger or JCB will also do but mind the weight !!!!

Then you need plenty of muscle to help, its fairly easy to manoeuvre it on the rollers to where you want it using 3 or 4 rollers.

You will also need a substantial crow bar to remove the rollers and set it on the ground — have you thought about using levelling pads to set the machine on? not expensive and makes levelling a dream.

If no tractor Max's method is good and do follow Kwil's advice regarding the head position.

We have move several of these in the past and you can't beat having lots of pals to help

Jason I can send you a photo of the last one we installed in a corner if you PM me with your email —- would add the photo but can't figure out how ??

John.

Edited By JohnF on 04/02/2013 16:22:45

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Good points one and all. However if its a nice solid pallet and you have the headroom why not just leave it on the pallet, even if it means a few drinking vouchers to the delivery driver. If it comes out a bit tall, making a duck-board or operators step is a lot less scary than knife'n fork methods of moving it off the pallet without proper gear. Makes any future shifting a lot easier.

Remembering the first 3 rules of Bridgeport shifting 1) Its top heavy and tippy, 2) It's really tippy, 3) It's really, really tippy I'd advise some timber framing fixed under the table arranged to ride close to the ground. Use the knee adjuster to set the ground clearance to as much under an inch as is practical and lock the knee. Don't forget to provide feed screw clearance when fitting. That way if it does tilt or slide everything comes to rest before disaster giving you time to figure out what to do next. Pallet trucks are a lot less stable than you might think with a tall load. Especially if you try for too tight a turn. I've seen a Bridgeport take one over easy as winking. Very impressive bang!

For lifting mine if re-arranging the workshop I made special bars and brackets which locate in the bolt down holes using expanding anchor bolts. These bolt in turn to four scissors jacks ( ex SAAB) allowing me to inch it up enough to sit on slide bars, rollers or skates as need be. Lots of packing during the process so its never up more than about 3/8 each corner.

Clive

Edited By Clive Foster on 04/02/2013 17:17:45

[Alan .204Participant @alan-204]

When i moved my Lath and Mill a bought some cheap caster wheels of fleebay made some screw legs lifted up the machine fitted the wheels, when it was in place reversed the process job done, must be honest though the Centec Mill and the Bantom Lath are not as heavy as you BP Mill.

Al.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Cheap castors won't hack it for a Bridgeport. Rule of thumb is that you have to start calculating at anything much over 100 lb. / 50 kg per castor. Things run a lot easier if you can keep within shouting distance of half the rated load. My heavy duty dolly has four castors with wheels about 2 or 3 inch diameter and 3 or 4 inches long rated at around 1,000 lb. each. Bridgeport and Smart & Brown 1024 lathe roll around the shop very nicely on that. Wide wheels instead of the usual skinny ones make a big difference. I have some jack-up castors with 8 inch diameter 1 and a bit inch wide wheels of similar, maybe greater, rating which don't roll anything like as well when similarly loaded.

If you have distance to go pneumatic tyre wheels roll best but note that E-Bay seller ratings for inexpensive units can be way optimistic. A set I got for a one time job were claimed to be 4 x the actual tyre rating! They should have gone back but supplier simply gave me a refund. Loaned out and used close to rating one wheel bent!

Clive

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

This is a stable arrangement for moving

[MattKParticipant @mattk47317]

I recently moved a Bridgeport from my gravel drive about 75ft up a concrete ramp into the workshop. It was delivered straight onto the gravel and the hardest part of the move was getting it off the floor onto the rollers. I welded up a scaffold pole birdmouthed into a tee arrangement with a "tongue" to lever under the base with about a 5' handle . You'll not be able to tip it with a normal crow bar. Got this onto more scaffold rollers on thick chipboard sheet (to give a smooth rolling surface). After that it was fairly easy to roll it to the garage but getting it up the slight concrete ramp incline was a bit hairy. As mentioned several times in this thread, they are very top heavy even with the head nodded and the table dropped on the Z axis. Tip: If it is going to fall over, let it go. You're not going to stop it! Used a 2 ton pull-along to pull it up the ramp. It's still sitting on the rollers now, nearly 2 months after getting it but I'm nearly finished rewiring it all for single phase with inverter drives. I guess you know that it will weigh around 1 ton, so a 500kg lift won't shift it. I borrowed a 2 ton engine crane but didn't use it in the end because although it would do a straight lift no problem, moving it I felt would be too unstable.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

From my recent experience (albeit not on a BP):

Borrow a 2 ton engine crane to give the reach to lift off the head.
saw bits of the pallet to give access to a trolley jack (less wheels to give more clearance) just to lift a corner at a time so you can get it off onto 4 piles of wood each 5 in high.
Make the piles from 2×4 and thiner bits down to 1/2" for slow and progressive height adjustment.
Now you have access underneath to insert 2 or 3 off 4×2 pointing in the direction you are going on top of the rollers.
Have 5 rollers not 4.
The rollers don't have to be full width if you have a good base like concrete, you could use 6 in lengths independently under each 2×4.
Your engine crane may have a shorter higher load setting that will allow you to lift one end for moving packing.
If you look carefully at a normal small trolley jack you will see how a 1"x1/2" hard steel bar can extend the arm an inch to get under the edge of the base (wheels off you aren't going to move it) to just lift enough to adjust packing.
Do it on your own if you can as in any group there will be one bozo who has no brains and is in a tearing hurry to get to the beer. There-in lies disaster.
Don't forget a garage floor should slope gently towards the door (petrol fume escape regulation) so it could not stay put on rollers.

The biggest problem I found was the lack of height to get a jack underneath easily.

[frank brownParticipant @frankbrown22225]

I have done this with a Deckel clone (900 Kg ~.9 ton) by myself from inside a shed down 4" onto a rough path, across a bit of lawn onto a smooth path. Then up a "pavoir" drive up a small slope into a garage, then with extra help, up two steps along a path up 6" into a different shed.. So my observations are:- you can't have too much cribbing ( Transatlantic name for bits of wood ), different thicknesses are useful. I used short bits of scaffolding, long bits get caught on garden ornaments etc. three bits are the minimum, four is better, 1/2" water pipe I think could be better if the ground is hard. I used a 30" sq. 4mm steel sheet as a load spreader in shed #1, which I then used to stop the rollers sinking into the lawn.. The only other tools I used were a 42" crowbar and a 60" prising bar bought from a well known tool store. I did try to use a big engine hoist, but the mill would not get very far into the splay of the legs so the overall length of the kit was excessive, so it was abandonded.

Frank

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

IMPORTANT H & S ADVICE

have no beer in the shop or house when the machine move is happening

and have your wife / partner hold the beer money until job is done

[Alexander MossParticipant @alexandermoss]

Hello,I had to raised my B/P up steep drive and into garage. I did it by using rollers under heavy wooden beams, which were fixed to underneath of B/P by the mounting holes, and winches used horizontally with strongpoints drilled into the garage floor. Also, I hired a very long, (over 6ft), stiff, prybar, (probably not correct name), with small wheels at its pivot point. It had an extending handle and was ideal for safely lifting the B/P just enough to insert or remove rollers and packing. it could also move the m/c sideways, without raising it enough to tip it.

I was not helped by (very attractive) neighbour who opened her window to ask if my wife knew I was sneaking m/c into garage.

Roy Moss

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Jeff Dayman on 04/02/2013 21:41:29:

IMPORTANT H & S ADVICE

have no beer in the shop or house when the machine move is happening

and have your wife / partner hold the beer money until job is done

.

??? H&S ? Don't recognise that brewery, do you mean S&N, Scottish and Newcastle ?

[frank brownParticipant @frankbrown22225]

The wheeled pry bar, is called a Johnston bar by our transatlantic cousins :- http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/johnson-bar-259915/

Frank

[steamdaveParticipant @steamdave]

My Thiel mill weighs in at 1.25 mt. It arrived on an industrial pallet and on the pallet it has stayed for the last 10 years. The mill is well travelled, having been moved from UK to Ireland. It was dead easy to move round the workshop using a pallet truck. Once in place, I chocked up the spaces between the faces with 4x2s and it has not suffered any ill effects.

The only downside is that the mill stands about 6" higher than designed, but that was easily remedied by making a 6" high duckboard.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

[DurhambuilderParticipant @durhambuilder]

I've moved a 3/4 tonne horizontal mill on my own with levers and rollers so it cam be done.

Just be careful though.

http://www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news/8718294.Southwick_farmer_tells_of_accident_horror/

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

> (petrol fume escape regulation)

Learn something every day – though my confverted garage must predate taht by a few decades.

We had a Dawncraft 22 craned into the garden, for about 2,500lbs. After a few years of abortive restoration we decided not to be one of those homes that has a boat in the yard for decades. The buyer was a geordie chap and one day I came home after dark to dicover the boat in the road outside lined up with a dedicated trailer behind his Landrover, supported by baulks of timber.

Somewhat reluctantly he accepted some help as it was getting dark and he had a long journey ahead. All went smoothly except when he used the electric winch as it came in with a jerk and the timber shifted and the whole thing came within an inch or two of falling on top of him. It took two of us an hour to get it on the trailer.

Before I had arrived he had shifted it a good thirty feet across and then out of the garden and round the gatepost into the road with just hand winches and virtually no opportunity to use the electric winch.

It was dark so I didn't really get a chance to count his fingers. He got a good deal – less than we paid to get it craned in, but at the end of the day he deserved it!

Neil

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