Lathe help!!

[Andrew Simpson 6Participant @andrewsimpson6]

Hi guys

I am new to model engineering and I am wanting your views on these Chinese lathes I don't have a lot of room in my workshop so I want a lathe with a small foot print. I have been looking at Chester and Amdeal 7×14 I see that you can get lots of accessories for them I also have been looking at the Chester 9×20 lathe what are your views on these types of lathes I know everyone says that myford a are the best but they are very expensive I have seen a myford ml10 which are a nice size but I am not sure what to do for the best . I am wanting to build 3.5" and 5" locos any help would be super Thanks Andrew

[Andrew Simpson 6Participant @andrewsimpson6]

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

Can I suggest that there is more to buying new kit than the size or the price. You need to think about what happens if something goes wrong, or breaks (etc). So, you need to think about how local is the supplier, and how well he (she) treats customers. And these are more important to those new to the work, than those with years of experience, as only the latter will already know many of the dodges.

Have a good read through some of the relevant topics here, before you decide.

Regards, Tim

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Andrew Simpson 6 on 11/07/2016 13:28:56:

I have been looking at Chester and Amdeal 7×14 I see that you can get lots of accessories for them

 

 

Take a closer look, what some companies sell as accessories others supply as standard so you need to take this into account when comparing prices. Typical items that may or maynot be included are 4-jaw chuck, faceplate, fixed steady, traveling steady, tailstock drill chuck, etc which all add up.

 

J

Edited By JasonB on 11/07/2016 17:11:23

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Hi Andrew,

A new chinese lathe is an excellent entry to the hobby for a beginner who doesn't know the ropes yet.

Don't be put off by negative comment on the web, a lot of it is out-of-date. While you won't get a high-quality tool my experience is that, at least for hobby use, the lathes are very good value for money.

If you buy from a reputable British supplier, they will support you if you are unlucky enough to get a dud.

The problem for a beginner buying second-hand is that you need to know what to look for, be confident that you can fix faults, and be aware how much spares might cost, or even if they are available. There are some real bargains out there, but there's no magic that makes something like a 60 year old Myford immune from wear, tear and abuse.

For reasons of space I started with a mini-lathe. I learned lots and had plenty of fun with it. Come on in, the water's lovely!

Cheers,

Dave

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

People who buy from this company generally seem to be happy with what they get and they do come with all of the bits and pieces. I've yet to see a bad comment on them on here. There has only been one I am aware of and it was sorted out.

**LINK**

There is also ArcEuro for Seig. Another fairly popular brand.

Personally I would add weight to spec's when you are looking around and would wonder if the light weight mini lathes are really up to what you intend to make. Maybe some one who makes them can comment on feasibility for 5" loco's in particular.

I also feel that models that come with screw cutting indicators are a good idea. Some have them, some don't. They all generally will come with gears to allow various pitches of thread to be cut. Not having these when 2nd hand lathes are bought can add a lot to cost.

ML10 and Speed 10's are pretty solid lathes if they have the capacity you need. It can also be fairly easy to find ones that haven't seen all that much use. Getting all of the bits you need for it if the lathe doesn't come with them can be very difficult and expensive. Some items don't come up for sale very often. There are also 2 styles of ML10. One uses replaceable spindle bearings the other doesn't. The ones with the replaceable bearings are a safer bet, The shots of the lathe on lathes.co.uk show the difference. It's pretty easy to spot.

John

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[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

If buying a mini-lathe, (the 7x14s) bear in mind they vary a lot in spec and size (you can get 7×10 up to 7×16). Look at several different companies and weigh up the different options and balance the price against what features you want.

I'm pretty happy with my mini lathe, although if buying again I would have got a higher-specced version with a longer bed (not available when I got mine)

They are pretty robust, but if you want something the same size (7×12) but more heavily built there's the DB7VS (but it's a bit more expensive).

Neil

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

If you can squeeze it in your space and pockets are deep enough buy the biggest possible. It is not just the between centres capacity but the ability to move the tailstock back out of the way for a good look/measure of something. Also benefits places to put things like chuck keys down.

[Roger Provins 2Participant @rogerprovins2]

I'm a very late starter to metal working although I have had a wood workshop and wood lathes for many years.

I bought a secondhand 9 x 20 which must have been one of the first imported as it has only a "Made In China by Shaoxing Machine Works" label and has not been repainted and rebadged as many have by various importers.

Apart from beefing up the cross and compound slides and decreasing the overly strong clutch spring tension I've just used it and have no complaints. It works and is as accurate as I've ever needed.

Parts and spares are easily come by.

Rog

[JonParticipant @jon]

Havent looed very far Ajohn theyre notorious for messing people about.
That said looking at a replacement mill from them.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Personally if I was looking for a lathe this is the sort of spec I would be looking at. They are available in several forms by different makers

**LINK**

They are really well priced for what they provide and size wise – swing and centre distance they are a pretty well established norm for a general purpose small lathe that might be used for all sorts of things. They offer something over many similar sized older traditional lathes with a 5" centre height, the ability to take 1" dia bar in the spindle bore. Few did.

They are also available with an inverter drive at extra cost.

John

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[here againParticipant @hereagain]

I have a little Chester Conquest and an Amadeal xj12 300 mill..Both very nice machines..Although price per lb (or kg) I would probably go for the slightly larger amadeal lathe too.. A very good looking and,unusually in the same breath,also very useful basic book has been written by our editor about minilathes..
You do have to be careful about material and depths of cut with speed controller lathes .Take very small cuts until you get used to it and one day if you do stall it you ll know what not to do next time!

Edited By here again on 11/07/2016 22:14:43

[Andrew Simpson 6Participant @andrewsimpson6]

Hi guys

Thanks for your help I will have a look into the best deals that I can get can anyone think of any other company's that sell these lathes I have looked at Warco,amadeal,Chester,arc euro,Axminster is there any more out there ? Thanks Andrew

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Another one is Excel Machine Tools who sell the Opti brand and some very heavy industrial items. Another is SPG tools. A beginner had a serious problem with an Opti Baby Lathe as an incorrect part seems to have been fitted. Some one else currently has a bit of a problem with one from SPG. It looks like something associated with screw cutting wasn't manufactured correctly. There are happy owners of both makes about and others that have had problems of one sort or another at times. These should be isolated instances.

Yet another is Machine Mart. Neil has seriously "abused" one of those but I'm not sure what he is using now. More abuse than you are likely to need on a small loco.

You might wonder why I linked to something larger and more expensive. I generally buy used machines and at times these have been Chinese and off beginners ( and otherwise ) that can't really use them. There can be all sorts of reasons for that. I just feel some of these problems are less likely to crop up on a larger lathe. I've never owned a warco lathe but when this sort of question crops up I mention them as I would find the accuracy report they come with reassuring. There are all sorts of comments about on the web about curing problems in that area but it's too easy for beginners to leap in and create other problems as they didn't really identify what was wrong in the first place. These are I hope isolated incidents and can be worked round anyway via hand work.

When you are thinking about the capacity of the machine consider the chuck size as well as the stated capacity of the lathe. That tends to be over stated given the chucks that are fitted. A 4" 3 jaw's real max capacity is around 3 1/2" with the reversed jaws fitted. That leaves them with the jaws sticking outside the diameter of the chuck and a rather short grip length. The cross slide travel also limits the max size of work that can be faced. Traditionally a 4 jaw chuck with a lathe would be larger than the 3 jaw. Often not the case now. Face plates need to be large as work sometimes has to be clamped so an ideal diameter for those will be larger than the lathe can face. The diameter fixed steadies can hold can also be a limitation but I am not sure if the need would crop up when making a loco.

Next thing you are likely to need is a miller and probably more bits and pieces. All together it's not exactly a cheap hobby really. I'd suspect the miller and kit to go with it may well cost more than the lathes you are currently looking at. Compared with using industrial gear though it is a cheap hobby.

John

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[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Don't see why a mill would be needed next, virtually all the published loco designs date back to a time when most model enginners only had a lathe so all milling operations can be done on the lathe usually with the addition of a vertical slide

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by JasonB on 12/07/2016 11:01:07:

Don't see why a mill would be needed next, virtually all the published loco designs date back to a time when most model enginners only had a lathe so all milling operations can be done on the lathe usually with the addition of a vertical slide

I did wonder about that but there may be a Myford aspect in the designs – needs a certain amount of cross slide travel etc. The usual spec of a 5" centre height lathe should handle designs for items aimed at Myfords easily. Maybe a mini lathe too. This is why I hoped that some one who had made this sort of thing on one would chime in. Some one who hopes to is another matter.

One thing I wouldn't advise a beginner to do is buy a Myford unless they can takes some one with them that can check the machine out pretty thoroughly. Good machines are likely to be more expensive than the usual prices anyway.

As I have mentioned before I was amazed by the quality of milling that could be done on a Peatol with a vertical slide when I owned one. Also it's cut capacity. Actually these are sized to allow people to make a certain scale of model loco on when the riser blocks are fitted for wheels etc but that's when the head is most likely to loose a bit of alignment and the centre distance means that stub drills are more or less essential.

John

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[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Posted by Andrew Simpson 6 on 11/07/2016 13:28:56:

I don't have a lot of room in my workshop

First build a bigger workshop.

You haven't said where you are from. There might be a club or forum member nearby who can give some advice and have a faster discussion with.

have you read all the other threads on the forum about lathe advice? Budget is often a key issue.

[Andrew Simpson 6Participant @andrewsimpson6]

Hi guys thanks for the info I am in a me club and there all myford myford myford which is fine but they have had them 30+ years and got them when they were a good price this is not an option for me . If I had more room to build a bigger workshop I would but I ant got the room. As long as I can make 3.5" and small 5" gauge that will be ok as I have no dreams of a 5" Stirling or 5" maid of Kent I will be happy I just wanted to know if they was capable ? Thanks Andrew

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I have problems with the space argument. I used to do a lot of work in an 8×6 shed – no lathe though. Woodwork.

I did visit some one who mostly made everything on a Myford 7. 8×6 shed and plenty of room for that, storage, a decent bench and he had a reasonably sized shaper at the end of the "alley". One of those cast your own and use steel for the guides. They have a respectable capacity. He also made small tools for people as a side line.

Maybe both mine and this one may have been the 10ft x 6 size but I'm sure neither of them were the 8ft wide ones. Pretty sure they were both 8×6. Mine went as a result of a house move. Worked in a garage and had too many rust problems.

I have a rear drive Boxford. They are pretty deep because of the way the rear drive is done, I have the early ME10. Depth from the wall 28" over all. I get tempted at times to buy the newer style Boxford. Bigger lathe and because the rear drive takes up less space one of those would fit – only the early ones though as I am stuck for length,. The early 20" one will fit in the same space. Work benches for model making don't need to be deep. Rigidity is likely to be more important. I used to use cut down thick kitchen work surfaces. My Boxford sits on an old shallow kitchen unit.

Some worry about the floor loading in sheds but forget that people can weigh over 100kg and have a pretty small foot print. Some thought on mounting a shed is a good idea though in some respects to stop the floor rotting.

I visited another model engineer recently. I'd say his width was a bit over 6'. He had one of the larger Clark lathes and had just bought a mini lathe. Lots of bench space but signs of clutter – not enough drawers and shelves. I think he had bought a mini lathe because of all of the things that people make on them. I suspect unhappy with the Clark, not sure. Clearly some interest in clock making. He also had a small miller, Chinese 2nd size up.

Years ago I also visited some one with a huge workshop. He was a builder. He had partitioned off a corner and used that as his workshop mainly due to ease of heating in the winter and I suspect keeping things dry. Rich man. He built clusters of houses.

John

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[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

I have a minilathe, the Sieg Super C3, bought it from Arc, great machine and good support if needed.

I also have a Chester 9×20, again same comments as the Sieg.

Finally, I have an SPG lathe, the SP2129, a very capable and spec'd machine. It boasts a 1.5kw motor ( although mine now sports a 1.5kw 3 ph motor with a vfd…) has a d1-4 Camlock nose,powered cross feed and a 38 mm spindle bore. Noth the sort of machine for clock making, although I'm sure it could make parts for Big Ben if needed…..

As for choice, its horses for courses…."what will you make with yours?"

Edited By John Rudd on 12/07/2016 15:52:13

Edited By John Rudd on 12/07/2016 15:53:55

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

I recently bought a Chester 9 x 20 to replace an older Warco version which had been much abused before I took possession. The 9 x 20 is about the maximum size that I can accommodate. Before buying the new one I looked at all the other small lathes on offer at exhibitions but there was one feature that the 9 x 20 has that the others did not. A screw-on chuck mandrel. This enables a 30 second maximum change between 3-jaw, 4-jaw, faceplate, collet chuck etc. So for me it had to be another 9 x 20. The one annoying feature……the price of a replacement belt (approx £12), should you need to renew it although since I have been using inverter drive (superb) I have not had to replace one in over 4 years of pretty much daily use.

Mick

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Mick,

My 9×20 has an inverter conversion on it too….absolutely fabulous….( nothing to do with the movie/series….grrr)…

But fyi, Beeline Engineering at Milton Keynes sell the belts at decent prices….think I paid around £6 a piece….

[David GosdenParticipant @davidgosden83033]

Several years ago I bought a Sieg C3 from ArcEurotrade when the AC motor version was about to be replaced by the DC version, so an excellent price. Since then it's done all sorts of work both general mending and more precise and demanding work. Support and backup is great, from Arc, here and many online forums. There's a wealth of info out there. The milling attachment is a bit of challenge and rather limited but apart from that the world is your oyster.

Lots of updates and mods available when you need them. I have done several and some improvements too when needs have arisen. The current project is a freelance 5" gauge loco – even turned the wheels from 115 mm blanks – can be done – just!

Well worth looking at the later version!

Very pleased with mine

Edited By David Gosden on 12/07/2016 17:54:35

[JonParticipant @jon]

How much room you got Andrew?

You will be amased how much can get in a small space with proper planning and needs.

[Andrew Simpson 6Participant @andrewsimpson6]

Hi I can fit a 5ft lathe in there no problems but the. I would have very little room for a work bench I do not need a big lathe as I have a ward 7d at work that will do any big work so a mini lathe or a 9×20 will be fine thanks for your replys Andrew

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