Is anybody else building a Northumbrian??? (survey)

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

Yes drawings in the magazine.

Don't use the first frame drawings, use the second ones.

They were altered.

regards David

[Phil H 1Participant @philh1]

Thanks Jason/ David,

Both comments are very helpful. I have now read the full story up to the issue regarding traction. I do hope Pete solves it. However, I understand that this engine is based on the Rainhill? Did Rainhill struggle and or – is it normal for small engines like this to struggle? Is the Canterbury Lamb a later, improved design with 4 coupled wheels?

I will subscribe and do a little bit more research before cutting or even buying metal. I think it might be worth a trip to my local track on the Wirral too to have a chat.

Thanks guys.

Phil H

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Well the old Rainhill model mentioned in Pete's thread also had a big lump of lead up front. I'm not really a loco man but the four coupled wheels should be better than two.

J

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

Jason

Thanks for pointing Phil over to my build thread

Phil

I think you’ve understood the limitations of this size of locomotive. It’s never going to set the world on fire but it’s an excellent beginners loco to enable you to test your abilities before you invest serious money in a larger locos. Like you I was beginner of about 18 months when I started, I did it because I wanted to try my hand at a ‘real’ boiler, that’s why my HMEM thread started with the end plates. I can’t see your avatar so don’t know if you’ve done a boiler for you small steam engine, if not I’d suggest you try one first.

This should be able to pull somebody, but not my 110plus Kg at the moment. Rainhill I understand was similar; the guys who built the one on my thread 45years ago never fired theirs. One of our club members is doing a Canterbury Lamb and I’m not sure if it’s the way he’s done it but the boiler is tiny so the whole thing is lighter than this

Drawing issues I'm aware of are covered in this series of threads or in my post on HMEM (I think I covered most over here) I didn’t use the drawings at all and did it all from the magazine articles and assistance of others.

There’s another example of one being being built here

Good luck and happy to help with any queries if I can.

Pete

[Peter TuckerParticipant @petertucker86088]

Hi Phil,
Before you subscribe you will need very fast broad band to access the digital archives.

Peter.

[Phil H 1Participant @philh1]

Peter,

I am probably going to start my selected engine in the same order as you did i.e., what appears to me as the 'tricky' bit – the boiler.

I will seek some advice from a local club first because it is not yet clear to me what the rules are. I have at least gathered that a fully silver soldered construction is the way to go and I note yout lesson regarding the use of different temperature grades. What is not so clear is the murky opinions that I have received regarding materials and stay design.

Not sure why you can't see my pics but I have just reloaded my engine shots as smaller files. Here

it is anyway;

Phil H

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

Phil

That looks very nice and clearly you aren't going to have an issue doing the running gear, so I'd say boiler first is a good way to go. On the construction rules, do consult the club, it is them that will be signing it off. They'll also be able to guide you on construction technique, getting the heat, flux and solder combinations right and knowing what to expect to happen is part of the neccesary learning curve.

BTW – also do the frames and stretchers, there's no point in building a boiler that won't fit the frames. Boilers don't seem to comply to +-1 thou" tolerances and seem to come out a bit "more or less"

Pete

[Peter HardingParticipant @peterharding54323]

Hi guys,

Don't come over here often but will make some comments re traction. One of the guys at our club has a 71/4" gauge Northumbrian/Rainhill. His also struggles with the adhesive weight. I for one will be quite happy if my engine just works – although being pulled would be better.

I know that Pete (Doubletop) has added lead and I have also been looking at where some extra weight could be stashed. It would seem to me that milling a slot in the forward beam would allow the lead block to be extended into the beam. Not much more but I'm sure that every little bit will help

PeteH

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

A few ideas for adding lead masses to Northumbrian:

1. lag the boiler with some lead or shape some lead like scale grain or boiler water treatment sacks and drape them over the boiler to appear like they are being shipped there

2. put some lead shot in the smokebox

3. add some plates of lead to the front tubeplate and inside the frames and under the boiler if space permits.

4. wrap some around the front axle again if space permits

5. make a scale, period-looking, coal chaldron wagon to push, and make its' axle next to the loco unsprung and with free up and down motion, so the load weight presses on the front coupling of the loco. Under the dummy coal load in the chaldron, place a big brick of lead.

Hope these ideas are of some use. (at least their price was right)

JD

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

Jeff

Some good ideas there but some woudn't work in this case I'm afraid e.g #4 – the ecentrics are on the front, and only driven axle.

I did get a suggestion for neo magnets to be mounted in all four corners just above the rails. I worked out that with a 2mm spacing , four magnets that wouldn't look too out of place could provide about 2Kg of pull each, so 8Kg total. That over doubles the weight. No ally tracks though.

The lead weight I've added gives an extra 1Kg

Pete

Edited By Doubletop on 22/05/2012 10:48:52

[Phil H 1Participant @philh1]

Well folks,

I have finally made a decision to build a 3 1/2" gauge Rob Roy and will start another thread.

So good luck trying to get traction Pete.

Phil H

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

Phil

God luck with the Rob Roy. I'll answer your query on gas firing one over on your other therad

Pete

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

I thought I'd check in and see if there were any new posts under this topic. It appears not. So how are things going with everybody's Northumbrian builds?

Pete.

[Phil H 1Participant @philh1]

Pete,

I notice that nobody has answered. Have you had the opportunity to give your engine another try?

[Peter HardingParticipant @peterharding54323]

Hi Guys,

Peter is awarer of the status of mine – Chassis complete, currently making valves and steam chests. Just finding it hard to find time at the moment Should be link below to my build thread which is a warts and all commentary.

**LINK**

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

Phil

I wish you hadn't asked that. We had a nice Sunday afternoon and the new track was just about a complete loop so I packed everything up and went over to the club. Before long I had a crowd of kids around who wanted to know everything and the little buggers wouldn’t stop grabbing things asking, "what's this mister". I soldiered on got everything ready and was going to use the hand pump to fill the boiler. Nothing happened. The pump is buried in the tender so any chance to give it a good whack was limited. So I packed up and left for home. A strip down of the tender got the pump out and as expected one of the balls was stuck on its seat. It’s back on the shelf while I get on with getting my Simplex ready for the coming summer (in NZ).

Pete

Stop getting lost in the outback, we are all waiting to see yours running on air

Pete

[Phil H 1Participant @philh1]

Dya know – I might just have a go at Northumbrian in parallel with Rob Roy. I have signed on to the digital ME and I have downloaded the articles.

You might also notice that I have started a post on waterjet cutting. Does anybody have a digital file for the tender and the correct locomotive frames – by any chance?

Phil H

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

Phil

That sounds to be a challenge good luck with the dual build. At least once you've done the Northumbrian boiler you'll know if you are ready to do the Rob Roy boiler.

On the frames get in touch with Pete H over on the MECH site he had his fames cut. His build thread is here

**LINK**

Pete

[Phil H 1Participant @philh1]

Thanks Pete, I have signed on to that website now as philh1.

[Phil H 1Participant @philh1]

Well Ive started. Reason for the 8 little wheels? I decided to make a 6 wheel tender, hence the long sections of frame steel in the second picture.

PhilH

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

Nice one Phil good to see you've taken the plunge. Are you going to share your build with us at all?

Pete

[Phil H 1Participant @philh1]

Pete,

Yes – will do at appropriate steps but I hope you are patient. It might take a while.

PhilH

[Phil H 1Participant @philh1]

Well,

A weeks spare time has ended with the tender frames. A good few hours of hacksawing, filing and a bit of milling. They just need to be polished a touch. Also shown are the embryo axleboxes.

PhilH

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

A nice start there Phil

Pete

[Phil H 1Participant @philh1]

Well its December so I thought I should at least report in to show the small amount of progress on the tender.

This first shot shows the machining set up for the wheels.

The finished wheel below;

One of the frames with the partly machined axleboxes;

Three of the finished wheels. Note that the spokes at the back of the wheels still need a small amount of polishing so that they look as smooth as the fronts.

The final shot showing all the components as they stand. The spring retainers need to be drilled and polished and the horn stays need to be drilled and split in half. You might also notice the expensive brass option for the frame stretcher/ buffer beams (at least it helped to save the 6BA tap) and I have decided to machine some 1/4" brass angle to fit as axlebox horns.

Its slow going but at least it is moving forwards.

Phil H

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