Photography in the workshop (for the inept)

[PippinParticipant @phillspowart84010]

I’m building a model which I hope will appear in the magazine at some point, therefore I’m taking photos of set ups, assembly etc as I go. My photos aren’t coming out great, they’re clear enough but have annoying shadows, flash reflections etc.

I’m not a photographer, and have no real interest in it beyond this particular use. I’ve tried with and without flash, and got it set to close up photography. One problem I have had is the flash being shadowed by the lens, I’ve seen flashes/lights that mount on the end so will get one of those. Camera is a Kodak AZ425.

Has this topic been covered in the magazine before?

This was taken with the flash, giving a washed out too bright bit at the left and leaving the right in shadow:

This is the same shot with no flash, less dark to the left but still too bright to the right and looking a bit washed out

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I never use flash, look through my builds and you will see no reflections. Last few years have just been taken with the phone, get in close and don’t use a digital zoom. Editor Neil likes my photos as did the publisher of my book.

Typical thread https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/topic/v-twin-kelsey/

Your white wall may not be helping as the camera will be adjusting for that bright area which makes the subject darker.

 

[PippinParticipant @phillspowart84010]

I don’t have a smartphone, so can’t use that. Some photos are OK without flash but some come out quite grainy and/or dark.

[Charles LamontParticipant @charleslamont71117]

Suggestions: Don’t use flash. Use a tripod, aperture mode, and stop down as far as this camera will go, about f/7 or 8, (I use f/22 on my Sony) to maximise the depth of field. Set to 100ASA. Use the self timer to avoid jogging the camera when releasing the shutter. Set the focus about 1/3 of the way into the desired depth. Don’t use more zoom than necessary. Light from the side or behind the camera to minimise glare – no backlight.

Some of this was with help from Google.

[JAParticipant @ja]

Flash is very difficult to use and best avoided. Better would be to get a tripod and use a slow shutter speed with a low ASA value. If you don’t have a cable release use the portrait/selfie timer on the camera. Sooner or later, if you are going to publish the results, you will need to edit the pictures. Forget about fancy editing programs such as Affinity and Facebook, ordinary .jpg viewer on Windows Office or Microsoft has a good, simple, very easy to use editor.

Remember you have all the time in the world to take many photographs. The more obvious is remove the swarf and take the key out of the chuck.

JA

[Charles beat me to it]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Should add all mine are hand held and no editing. The later is preferred for the mag.

[Andy StopfordParticipant @andystopford50521]

Your camera looks like it’s pretty decent, and should give good results for your purposes.

However, even if you have no interest in photography as such, for what you want it really would be a good idea to learn some of the basics, for example, Jason mentions the white wall fooling the camera’s exposure control, so you need to know why that is, and what you can do about it.

I can’t give you references, my knowledge of photography comes from the days of film, and although the principles are the same, a modern book/online tutorial/etc. will be easier to apply to your camera. You can always skip the bits about taking portraits or whatever, though the basics of composition are worth knowing.

And yes, don’t use the flash, you’ll have loads of problems with reflections, burnt-out bits, etc. with it.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

If you have not done so already run the details past Neil and also get him to send you an author pack wich has guidance about photos, text etc

Bit about editing taken from the guidelines

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Pippin, having it on your shiny milling table doesn’t help, and a somewhat mixed and a little cluttered light and dark background won’t help either. Try to get a background that is the same shade all over, with a matt white or suitable  pascal colour that doesn’t clash with your item, have some good lighting that is even over the whole area, flash is not very good with close-ups, but one way is to defuse it, by covering it with a white piece of fabric, or a few layers of white tissue paper. It would also help if you used a tripod, and used the shutter’s self timer when taking your photos, then you could try directing some light in the right place, with a piece of matt white card or a board. And yes do as JasonB has said about the size of the photos, and don’t crop them, or edit them in anyway.

Regards Nick.

[PippinParticipant @phillspowart84010]

Thankyou all, yes I’m in contact with Neil and have the various packs/guides etc.

I need to work out methods that can be done fairly quick, I tend to get too focused on the actual work to remember to stop and take photos as it is. At this rate I’ll have to build a third loco just to get enough photos!

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

All good advice above, I’d only add that a polarising filter would help control reflections.

Rob

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

If you use a polariser its effect is greater when the light source is at 90 deg to the lens. Not quite in agreement on the flash advice as diffused and bounce flash are very good tools when taking images that are reflective.IMHO.

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Don’t use flash. If not bright enough, use extra lights. If possible move the object to where there is more natural light. Use white panels to reflect more light onto the object. Good luck.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I think if I had to start setting up every photo with a tripod, backgrounds, bouncing light etc then I would either not take as many photos or my output rate would drop considerably.

Looking at details of your camera it seems it will only focus down to 500mm which may not be helping, most of what I take is probably 200mm or less distance from the part to the phone which avoids excess backgroud and fills the frame with the actual subject.  Also the larger lense needs more light into it. The selling point seems to be it’s large zoom which is really the opposite of what you want for workshop use.

[Gerard O’TooleParticipant @gerardotoole60348]

You are getting a bright streak from some light or other. I would switch that off for a start. If you need to light the scene then use a light bounced off the ceiling or an adjacent wall.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Your camera appears to be optimised for outdoor use. I know it’s too late for you but a camera  / lens with less zoom range, towards the shorter focal length range and ideally with a macro capability would be a better choice.

Robert.

[Ches Green UKParticipant @chesgreenuk]

Pippin,

As has been mentioned, try to get bright, even lighting across the subject and avoid high contrast backgrounds eg a white wall behind the darker mill table.  Flash can be good but can also make certain scenes look worse.

Maybe also, if possible try to capture only the area of interest ie get closer in if focusing allows.

Like many, I use a mobile phone for 90% of my pics….it’s more than good enough, and it’s 5 or 6 yrs old. An iPhone has probably the best overall camera/software set up….I use an Android phone.

Also, within the camera Settings, find the settings that allows you select the area (small, medium, large) that the camera sensor will try to make look the best….this will affect Exposure (eg brightness) ….and what part of the subject the camera Focuses on.

So maybe dig out your camera’s manual, have a re-read of it and particularly look at how to set up the area of Exposure and area of Focus.  I find that Settings have a mystical habit of ‘adjusting’ themselves as soon as my back is turned, so check them before each picture session. Good luck.

Ches.

 

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Loads of good advice as usual.  Here’s another couple of suggestions.  If reflections persist, try using a fine dulling spray of some kind.  I’ve used Ambersil corrosion inhibitor in the past.  If you’re not using flash, when you view the subject, try using a reflector to direct a little light into the shadows.  Possibly reposition your light source, or even add a little extra.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Assuming the editorial requirements for picture quality can be met best answer is to get a smart phone. An obsolete one will be fine. The massive computational procession needed to get reliable, attractive, pictures from the tiny lenses and sensors simply iron out most of the problems you are having.

First rule of smart phone cameras is they have to produce attractive pictures of people, family groups and pets (especially cats) under even the most seriously unlikely situations when wielded by the totally unskilled. Maybe not all the time but they come pretty darn close. Frankly you have to be a darn good photographer to reliably better a half decent, reasonably modern, smart phone camera. Even professionals use them in appropriate situations. Albeit usually via a fancy app rather than the standard camera one.

Older phone out of upgrades can be got quite cheaply and will do just fine as a workshop camera. Not to mention the handy calculator et al apps and data repository uses. Thats where my old iPhone SE is headed to replace the current iPhone 4 “shop camera, calculator + data stuff” once I get round to having new batteries installed.

Clive

[southernchapParticipant @southernchap]

This is a great thread, thank you to everyone that has replied.

I don’t take pics for magazine articles (pity the poor editor that would have to deal with my ramble! 😳😄), but I do take pictures for other forums.

The difference in the ease of getting a reasonably good shot of work, machines, or tooling in a workshop, between a reasonably decent camera (I used to have a Sony Alpha 6100), and even a midrange smartphone these days is astonishing.  The smartphone wins every time.

I daresay with the right kit and the right skills, a good photographer could leave my photographs in the dust (where they mostly belong, I suspect! 😳😄), but the help you get on a smartphone (often even without fiddling with settings) does a great job hiding my lack of genuine interest in photography, and consequent unwillingness to spend the time practising and improving my skills.

 

@Pippin, a used smartphone (you don’t have to put a SIM in it to be able to use it as a telephone; you clearly don’t feel the need for this so you probably are better off not bothering; being unreachable has definite advantages!😉) from 5 years back, shouldn’t set you back much.

They’re also very handy for taking out with you when you don’t want the encumbrance of a ‘proper’ camera, but might discover whilst out that you want to take some snaps.

Before the days of smartphone cameras, ‘proper’ photographers, would sometimes take out a small, decent quality compact camera, if they weren’t out specifically to take photographs.  You can treat your ‘non-telephone’ smartphone like a better version of a 1980’s Canon AF compact camera. 😉

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

this came up in a recent conversation There are a lot of people taking photographs but there are very few photographers!!!

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Undiffused flash almost always gives reflections from shiny surfaces.

White backgrounds can cause under exposure, by confusing the auto exposure system.

Without flash, use any anti shake systems on the camera.

Don’t be afraid to steady yourself, by leaning on suitable supports

All mine are hand held, although, I should really use a tripod (Too little room in a congested workshop, insufficient patience, and in many cases, impossible)

I mostly use f/8 on my Panasonic FZ50, hand held, at 35 mm equivalent focal length, in Macro focus mode, with shake reduction, Sometimes a large aperture can be used for differential focus to throw a distracting background out of focus.

H T H

Howard

[VicParticipant @vic]

As a point of interest I have a 24.3 MP MILC but I only normally use it for holidays. I take an awful lot of pictures though using an iPad Mini (12MP) and the pictures are generally very good. I also find composition on a tablet is far easier than many cameras I’ve used in the past. Editing on an iPad is also very quick and easy using its built in Photos app.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

For publication in MEW pictures of about 1 Mb have been adequate.

I was advised to work at about 1Mb, by a regular contributor to EIM, and MEW.

Have never had any complaints.

1Mb will happoly print at A4 do pocs in a magazine will be smaller and quite good quality.

A 4.8 Mb file is HUGE compared to what actually goes into the magazine.

Howard

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

surely it must be better to have a big file to start with, if you then reduce it at least the fine detail is still there. If it wasnt there to start with it can only get worse. out of interest just looked thru my photo library and most of my files are betweem 8.5 and 12

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