Does anyone have any info about these vices

[bjcolyerParticipant @bjcolyer]

Hi everyone

I am a retired 72 year old who did a 5 year EITB mechanical engineering apprenticeship starting in 1970. During the first year we made several test pieces including 2 vices – a pipe vice and a bench/toolmakers vice. I am now in the process of restoring those vices and am trying to obtain information on them and perhaps even some engineering drawings. I’ve uploaded photos of them to my profile gallery.

Does anyone recognize the design or layout and have further information.

[Nigel BennettParticipant @nigelbennett69913]

I made the bench vice like yours in the apprentice skool in about 1973 or 1974. It was something of a community effort as the screw was turned by one chap as part of a batch on the capstan lathe. Somebody else made the serrated jaws on the shaper. The main parts were chewed out of chunks of mild steel on the vertical milling machine. There were tight tolerances to work to with measuring rods over the angled faces to achieve a decent shake-free fit of the moving jaw on the base.

I no longer have it as I thought it very limited, but my sister has one that my wife, then a commercial apprentice, made in the same place – which was where we met!

I’m fairly sure it would have been to Imperial measurements. It shouldn’t be too hard to measure yours up!

[bjcolyerParticipant @bjcolyer]

Hi Nigel

Thanks for your prompt response!

I’m surprised to get any replies at all because I attempted to submit my post 3 times and on every occasion it crashed. Uploading photos to the gallery was just as problematic. I attempted to upload 2 photos but it looks like only 1 made it into the gallery. I was careful about using jpeg files of not too large a size too.
Anyway, as only the photo of the pipe vice made it into the gallery I think you must be commenting on that. In my case a lot of this was done on the bench using nothing more than files and hacksaws. Our supervisor was an ex Royal Navy instructor who had a firm belief in being able to do things on the bench before going anywhere near a machine. Obviously the main screw and handle were done on a lathe though.
I’m absolutely certain that it was all made to imperial measurements. Yes I could measure it but I don’t really want to reverse engineer it and I’m sure there must be archives of these old drawings out there somewhere?
Anyway, thanks for your interest!

Barry

 

Mod Edit

 

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Found this for sale on Vinted in Greece, looks as though yours may have been based on or a copy of a commercial item.

Not much help but the picture is a bit clearer.

John

[bjcolyerParticipant @bjcolyer]

Hi John

I would say its identical.

It’s interesting it’s turned up in Greece because I’m sure the original plans were from the UK Engineering Industry Training Board. Perhaps they adopted them plans from a pre-existing design?

The main reason I need the plans is because I need to get some replacement grub screws for the collar (which you can see just inside the left jaw). By measurement they look like 5BA but I don’t have any thread gauges so I cant be sure.

Regardless, this is the first photo I have seen of a vice identical to mine. So thanks!

Barry

 

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

if you find out the size post it on here ,someone maybe me will have a few to send you.

[bjcolyerParticipant @bjcolyer]

Hi Bernard

I’m pretty sure the original is a 5BA x 1/2″ steel slotted grub screw but as the thread it connects to doesn’t have any keyway to accept the screw I’m tempted to go for something in brass.

I’m just trying to source some 5BA screws now so I can test it

 

Thanks

Barry

 

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

I use my bench vice, identical to yours, most days with it just sitting on the bench top.  The clamping plate fitted on the underside of the base is somewhere I just have to remember where.  I did my first year at Hinckley CFE in 1967/68 a full time, I think 38 weeks both shop and classroom.  Our first workshop was in an old wooden shed resting on concrete pillars and all the steel was stored beneath it, after the Christmas we moved into a purpose built new brick annex.  The vice was one of the later projects we had to do, I think BSW threads back then with hardened jaw pads.

[bjcolyerParticipant @bjcolyer]

Hi Howard.

Thanks for your interest!

I did my apprenticeship at Petters Ltd in Hamble, Hampshire. I think you are right in that this vice was one of the later projects in the first year. It concentrated more on machining skills where the first project, the pipe vice, was more about bench fitting. I do remember being presented with a block of mild steel with 1/8″ deep serrations in it that we had to file flat using a surface plate and engineer’s blue to determine flatness. I actually think that was a real test of our resolve.

I have measured the O/D of the grub screw using a very cheap vernier and it comes out at 3.3mm which is why I think its 5BA. But I guess I’ll have to to buy a variety of screws that are about 1/8″ O/D and try them.

Thanks again

Barry

 

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Barry, why not buy a set of  BA thread gauges Might cheaper, and would be quicker.

Regards Nick.

 

[bjcolyerParticipant @bjcolyer]

Hi Nicholas

Yes thread gauges was the first thing that I thought of but, as someone on this forum thinks it could a Whitworth thread, I might be wasting my money. Unless anyone knows of a Universal set of thread gauges that cover most imperial threads?

Thanks for your interest!

Barry

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

If you can take a good close-up photo of an original grub-screw … please post it here.

MichaelG.

[bjcolyerParticipant @bjcolyer]

Michael, I’m afraid these are the best I can do!

Thanks for your help!

Barry

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks, Barry

At first sight, I would say that thread-form is neither BA nor Whitworth … which most likely makes it Metric or Unified

I will have a better look when I get back home.

MichaelG.

 

 

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

If the screw in the picture is 1/2″ long then it’s nowhere near the correct tpi for 5ba.

[bjcolyerParticipant @bjcolyer]

Hi Clive

Sorry I was wrong about the length. On my very cheap vernier its about 9.2mm. I guess there could be some wear on the end that secures the thread so maybe it was 3/8 inch long?

Thanks for your help?

Barry

 

[bjcolyerParticipant @bjcolyer]

Hi Michael

I think in those days we generally were still working in imperial. But I could be wrong because it is 55 years ago. Did you see the correction I made above, I think the length is nearer 3/8 than half inch.

Thanks for your help.

Barry

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Based on diameter I get 42tpi so most likely 5BA as the crests are a bit fuzzy so hard to get an exact diameter

[peak4Participant @peak4]

One can often improvise thread gauges by using a known screw, even if a different diameter.

5BA has a pitch of 0.59mm, a modern mains socket faceplate screw to hold the switch/socket onto the backbox is M3.5, so you will readily have a 0.6mm thread gauge available somewhere.
No it won’t screw into a 5BA hole, as it’s too big on the diameter, but you can use to compare the pitch.

Bill

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Bill’s observations regarding pitch are very useful

But I am personally trying to sort the sheep from the goats, by considering the thread-form.

MichaelG.

.

https://www.boltscience.com/pages/screw4.htm

https://www.boltscience.com/pages/screw5.htm

https://www.boltscience.com/pages/screw6.htm

”Go Compare”

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I had a little go earlier, and I also came up with 5BA, but I wasn’t confident that I was correct.

Regards Nick.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Having done my Toolmaking apprenticeship 1970 -74 I would go with 5 BA to start with. Maybe treat yourself to a metal digital caliper for Christmas. 🙂

Tony

[Andrew Williams 7Participant @andrewwilliams7]

I have the old drawing set c1966 and it shows 2 off 4BA x 1/4″ cone point grub screws threaded into the screw collar.

[bjcolyerParticipant @bjcolyer]

Hi Bill

I tried your test using a mains socket faceplate screw and the pitch does look like quite a close match.

The general consensus seems to be that it is probably 5BA.

Thanks

Barry

[bjcolyerParticipant @bjcolyer]

Hi Michael, Nicholas and Tony

There does seem to be a growing consensus that the thread is probably 5BA.

The reason I mentioned that thread first in this forum is that I showed a photo of the vernier measuring the O/D of the screw to a Googl AI bot and it came up with 5BA based on the O/D and the TPI it estimated from the photo. I know one shouldn’t believe everything that AI tell us so that’s why I joined this forum.

Thanks again

Barry

 

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