CAD drawings for outside manufacture

[gerry maddenParticipant @gerrymadden53711]

To try to save a little time on one of my projects I’m ‘thinking’ about having some parts made outside. I can produce decent 2D drawings for these parts, but anything other than local machine shops are likely to want CAD/step files of the parts, rather than pieces of paper.

Life is far too short for me to start learning CAD now (I have been involved with it enough in my working life to know that I’d be wasting my time!) so I’m just wondering, how or where would one get my 2D drawings made into something that’s likely needed for CNC manufacture?

Gerry

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Most places that offer a CAD service can work from 2D drawings, you just pay for their time in producing whatever is needed for the processes, be that a DXF or DWG file for simple 2D work like laser cutting to a 3D model for complex parts. Not so easy with the online services which generally require you to upload a file.

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Hi Gerry

What format are your 2D drawings ?

Emgee

 

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Gerry, I think, is looking for a CNC service that takes paper drawings.   I’ve just failed to find one that explicitly does, though some might if you ask for a quote.

Must be possible, though paying a professional to convert paper into CAD is likely to be expensive.    Gerry: how many and how complicated are the drawings? – maybe someone here could help.

All the CNC websites I explored are heavy on blah blah sales speak and low on ‘how to’ details.  The expectation is you send them a drawing, they look at it, and reply with a quote / ask for clarifications.   The most complete advice I found, one firm only:

• This particular firm expects an electronic CAD file, not paper.
• They do not accept proprietary 3D formats like DWG (compatibility issues)
• DXF is supported with caveats, and a comment that thickness has to be specified separately.   DXF being a 2D format, I guess it’s only acceptable for 2½D processes like engraving or laser cutting.
• STL possible, but not preferred for 3D-subtractive processes because the format loses quality,
• IGES OK, but not recommended because sending it by email can problematic – the files are bigger than STEP
• STEP preferred in the latest version.

I wonder if time and technology have made paper drawings a special requirement?  CAD may have become almost universal over the last 30 years.   I’d recommend anyone starting out in the hobby to learn 3D-CAD almost immediately.   Although design and exploiting external CNC providers is a good reason for 3D-CAD, I use it a lot to validate other people’s 2D drawings.  3D modelling is a very good way of detecting their mistakes and my misunderstandings!

Dave

 

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

I think that they are in pencil and paper format. Hence the question.

John

Dave beat me to it!

A little later …….

I’m sorry, I should have been more helpful instead of trying to be clever.

If you can be more specific about the parts – maybe post a photo or two of your drawings, someone on the forum might be prepared to help out by drawing it/them for you in 2D CAD and send them to you.

John

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

One example that Dave must have missed is Craftcloud that I have used for 3D metal printing they will do the CAD work prior to CNC, just look in their Help/ FAQs

2D drawings are still often needed as you can’t put things like surface finish and hole tolerances on a 3D model.

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

Where in the world are you and how many of each item do you require, are the first questions.  Unless you need 10’s of a part simple manual machining doesn’t require more than a fag packet sketch for an engineer to discuss requirements.  Any qualified machinist should be able to settle tolerances with your guidance as to what you are trying to achieve with the part.  Unqualified people can make a mountain out of a  mole hill, keep it simple and ask around for local small machine shops, even CNC production shops have the odd manual machine for the odd job.  Alternatively look for a local hobbyist.

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

This company is local to me, but I haven’t used their services. Some members of my club have, so I will ask at tonight’s meeting.

On their website they say they offer 2d and 3d cad services so presumably they would be able to convert your drawings. Although the company name is A.K. Stainless they do a whole range of materials.

https://www.akstainlessltd.co.uk/

Stuart

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

Gerry, I’ve sent you a PM

 

JimB

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

One example that Dave must have missed is Craftcloud that I have used for 3D metal printing they will do the CAD work prior to CNC, just look in their Help/ FAQs

2D drawings are still often needed as you can’t put things like surface finish and hole tolerances on a 3D model.

Yup, I didn’t find Craftcloud.  Maybe because Craftcloud “operates as a price comparison site for manufacturing services. “, not a CNC provider, and they fell outside my search criteria.   And their home-page headlines as  “Your Streamlined
3D Printing Service“, also not a match!

Anyway although Craftcloud are hiding their light under a bushel, it’s good to know they exist: I’ve bookmarked them.

The actual firm they link to for doing CAD design is Cadmore.

All good stuff, finding out who does what can be surprisingly difficult.

Ta

Dave

[Julie AnnParticipant @julieann]

The newer versions of STEP files can contain manufacturing information such as tolerances, surface finish and material specifications.

Julie

[gerry maddenParticipant @gerrymadden53711]

Hi all and thank you for your responses, particularly those who have offered their services. I will feel a bit guilty though if I don’t make them the parts myself, at least initially. There will be plenty more in the pipeline though, if all goes well so I may still consider the ‘outside’ later on.

In my working life, I often handled step files for getting things manufactured and as Julie says, the content was pretty comprehensive. The problem I had though was I was not able to view the content of these step files myself. (My work computer was never big enough, didn’t have the right software, or if it did, I didnt have the knowledge to manipulate the data. Would that also be the case now if a third party created some 3D files for me?  Ideally I would need to be able to check the content of the 3D dwg matched my 2D prints before forwarding them onwards. So how might this be done?

Gerry

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Gerry

 

Drawing the piece in 2D is only a couple of steps from a dimensioned drawing + a model and a picture of the 3D model which you could view and approve before submitting any file to a manufacturer.

Emgee

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Thanks Julie, I’ll have to look into what Alibre can add to a STEP file and where to access what has been added. At the moment I think hole tolerances can only be added as a note when producing a 2D drawing so would not be associates with a step file.

As for checking someones CAD then a 2D drawing produced from the 3D CAD model would be the simplest for checking sizes, you could view that as a pdf and some jpg images of the 3D model or better still a 3D pdf that you can move about on your screen.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

There are STEP file viewers available, which include measurement tools.  Could be a good option for verifying models.

Some of these are free.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

David, can Alibre add things like hole tolerance and sufrace finish to a STEP? and if one containing that detail is importe dwher can I view it

 

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

David, can Alibre add things like hole tolerance and surface finish to a STEP? and if one containing that detail is imported where can I view it.

 

Jason,

STEP AP242 has extensive support for PDM (Product Data Management) – currently Alibre doesn’t support the extended capabilities of AP242 – only the geometry representation, so the information you mention has to be placed in the 2D drawing.

This will have to change at some point in time as PDM becomes more widely used.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Jason,

If you need to view the PDM information in a STEP file – try eDrawings.  I’m pretty sure that will display the information attached to the 3D model.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Thanks David.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

In case it is useful to someone here (not that I understand such things) but Solid Edge (versions 2022 onwards) supports extended STEP AP242 files.

“Solid Edge supports the extended capabilities of STEP AP242. Solid Edge 2022 includes enhancements for exporting PMI views and dimensions to STEP AP242, which is designed for product data management and includes features for composite structures, electrical harnesses, and piping. Additionally, Solid Edge can import 3D models with live dimensions, allowing for dynamic changes based on imported dimensions. Overall, Solid Edge is equipped to handle the advanced features of STEP AP242, making it a suitable choice for users needing this format”

Solid Edge also supports the JT (Jupiter Tessellation) file format.

Jupiter Tessellation

 

Regards,

 

IanT

[Jim MasonParticipant @jimmason14480]

If its any use, the guys I use in Thruxton, Hampshire, are old school and produce all our machining from 2D drawings

https://www.knightengineering.co.uk/

I’ve used them for years, quality is always very good.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

A lot of machining on CNC machines is done from printed 2D drawings (which may have originated from CAD or from more traditional techniques).

Rather than use CAM software to create toolpaths from 3D CAD models, it’s common for the ‘conversational’ or ‘manual data input’ options on CNC controllers to be used.  Once input and proven, the resulting routines can be saved for later re-use.

I think that the OP may be worrying unnecessarily about the ‘need’ for CAD.

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I think a lot of the need will depend on the actual parts, simple you may well just get away with a few wizards with fag packet sketches, more complex with 3D features and more than one setup then a 3D model is really required.

As I said earlier if a company has to input data or convert to whatever they feel their machines need you will be paying for that time. So find who can do the job, find out what they require and what cost implications the various info you give them incurs.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

I just came across this free tool for viewing STEP files

https://openstepviewer.com/

You do have to create an account though to access the download.

[Kevan ShawParticipant @kevanshaw32462]

Gerry

 

i am in a similar place but at the moment I am looking at laser cutting rather than machining. I also used to do cad but for architecture and am well out of practice. I have bitten the bullet and have started to use Q-Cad. It is 2d and has a good set of tools and a really good set of video tutorials that got me started again!

I did do a couple of hand drawings but really worry they are good enough and a bit unfair to get someone else to sort them out!

best of luck in getting stuff drawn and done!

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