Black 5 Boiler Problems

[Ron HancockParticipant @ronhancock63652]

Well my first attempt to build my boiler was a disaster.

I had a leak that i thought was from the ends of boiler tubes.

I found it was boiler pipes split.

Our Boiler inspector thinks it was the Heat from the Tig then the difference in heat on the tubes.

I have started again Had to fit new Plate in Fire box and silver soldered piped Back in.

I have just made the Plate smoke box end then will need to weld the new pipes into that end.

Big set back as thought it was finished took me a couple weeks to get back onto it as i had lost heart in it.

As it has put me back a long time if any one know's of a 5 inch tender for sale please let me know.

Don't mind refurbishing one or re building it or a part built one as don't want to miss summer running if i can get the Loco finished hoping so

Ron

[Ron HancockParticipant @ronhancock63652]

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

Sorry to hear that Ron. My way of doing it is to weld up the firebox inner, solder the tubes in this end only, weld in boiler end plate, then put tubes in and solder, then put firehole end plate in. This I have found to be most reliable way. I have welded tubes in but didn't like the cracking sound as they cooled, and that was with deoxy plate!

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Thanks for posting your disaster

The more I do in this hobby the more I realise that disaster is waiting on our shoulders in this hobby and a constant stream of fabulous success stories just doesn't ring true in the real world

Glad I'm not the only one who is learning the hard way

[Ron HancockParticipant @ronhancock63652]

Hi Ady yes the scrap pile in the corner by my Lathe certainly grows bigger every week.

One of our Members from Rugeley Power Station sme said you make three and one is normally right.

How true that was but i have to admit till two years ago i had never used a Lathe or a milling machine.

I did used to be a welder so the one thing i was looking forward to was making the Boiler.

But again it bit me on my Bum it's not any where as easy as it's made out to be.

I still think Tig welding is far better for the thick copper but would never attempt doing the boiler tubes with the Tig.

Just hoping that the Silver soldered ones work now it has took me some time to try and solve the problem i almost gave up after the disappointment.

Only the cost of the new boiler being made pushed me on to trying again.

Good luck with yours nice to hear from you

Ron

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

The scrap can amount to a lot of money down the drain, I have been very careful when machining bronze due to it's cost, do not want the make three to get one correct as that would amount to £500.00 for the 8 main axle boxes.

Boiler will be another challenge to get right first time as the material costs are likely to be over £400.00 (kit is £720.00) as it is 26" long and 6" diameter 10swg.

Bob

[Ron HancockParticipant @ronhancock63652]

I agree but unfortunately i am still a learner and think i have it right only to find it was not.

I agree the cost of leaded bronze is a small fortune.

My biggest cost as been silver Solder trying to seal joints it has cost around £200 money down the drain.

I thought it was just the Joints but later found it was the new pipes split. another £148 down the Drain.

Now still trying to work out if before i go any further to Strip Barrel of and start again or to hope the new pipes i have silver soldered are ok.

Think for piece of mind strip down and start again Wish i could just take boiler and get some one just to do the pipe work who knows what they are doing as would be cheaper in the long Run.

As boiler is 24 inch long so hard lifting the thing so heavy not so good lumping it around

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Whenever I'm doing something new I try to watch some decent youtubes

A boiler is beyond me at the moment but I do dimly remember a youtube at the mamod place and the "production line" type system they used, all hand built… which made it look pretty easy….

Everything is easy, if you can figure it out…

[Ron HancockParticipant @ronhancock63652]

I wish my boiler was as simple as the ones on a mamod but mine is 24 inch long and i can only just lift it must be about 30 to 35 kilo.

so many prosses involved plus constantly cleaning putting in Citric acid then making sure boiler is red hot then trying to move it when its that hot.

I have welding gloves but it seems to hold the heat forever.

I have been in for my tea come out to put in Acid still to hot to touch

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

How have you stayed the firebox above the row I can see half way down the side in your single picture?

[Ron HancockParticipant @ronhancock63652]

[Ron HancockParticipant @ronhancock63652]

The stays where done to the top of firebox as per drawing thought i would add photo better than a thousand words

Ron

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I think Kwil was asking what stays you have used across the top and down the sides to meet the ones in your photo above, something like this. Or are there girder stays that we can't see?

Edited By JasonB on 10/03/2015 15:47:00

[Ron HancockParticipant @ronhancock63652]

[Ron HancockParticipant @ronhancock63652]

I have cut the Barrel of witch i will Tig weld back on after i have sorted the pipes I have been asked about the top bridges they are welded from inside with the Tig to top of Firebox and top of Boiler.

I am not sure where to go know i don't know if i should just weld the Back of the new pipes i have Fitted or to Remove the Back of firebox plate whilst i still can and make new Plate flanged and weld pipes in before welding new back of firebox or just silver solder Back of Firebox tubes.

I really don't want any more problems so not sure which way to go welcome feedback

Ron

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

Even with girder stays at the top of the fire box I would still expect to see stays across the two outer sections above the stays that are shown joining the outer and inner fire box sections. the pictures below show the boiler of my firefly which other than being 3.5" it does show the stays across the boiler above the fire box.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Without the cross staying shown in Bob's picture, you will for sure end up with bulging sides because of the extent of the area of unsupported material. Who's drawings were you working with?

[Ron HancockParticipant @ronhancock63652]

I will put them in but still trying to sort out the other problems.

I have centre punched where they go i I have the Bronze stay bars ready to weld in.

I thought you meant the Top Stay's sorry still learning.

I have just welded the tubes from the other side of fire box look dreadful in Photo but look like they are really in tight now more confident now.

[Ron HancockParticipant @ronhancock63652]

[Ron HancockParticipant @ronhancock63652]

Hope this will seal now might have been ok but now i will be surprised if this does not seal now.

Just going to fit a sleeve and Tig weld the Barrel back on then.

Also fit front Smoke Box Plate and fit the Stays.

Just hope and Pray its all ok after all this,

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Ron is that silver solder you have used more liek a brazing rod to tig braze the tubes in. Also also looking at the tube in the foreground on the first of those three photos has teh copper melted as it looks like "runs" on teh surface of teh tube.

Don't want to come over as being negative but would be a shame to seal it back up by welding the barrel back on and have problems later. I'd be tempted to get your boiler inspector to take a look at it now before covering things up.

Edited By JasonB on 10/03/2015 20:00:17

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Sound advice, show the Inspector first.

[Ron HancockParticipant @ronhancock63652]

Hi i used silver solder but 40% ready fluxed rods yes the silver solder is on the outside of the Tube not gone through from inside.

I still thinking of making a new complete smoke box just worried about drilling all the stays out.

I am far from proud of this and very expensive mistakes but have to learn from them.

I would do it totally diff rent when i make my simplex Boiler just wish i had started that one first and not the Black 5.

Time to sit back before taking the Next step

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