Taper turning attachment

[Bernard ReillyParticipant @bernardreilly64467]

Hi can anyone help me regarding an offset taper turning attachment I purchased from India.

No instructions received or how to calculate the offset required for N0 3 MT.

Thank you, Bernard Reilly Glasgow.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

As the amount of offset is determined by the overal length of the part, ctrs, ctr hole depth, etc you will have to go back to school boy maths or CAD to work things out.

You should be able to get quite close by running a dti against your blank for a known distance, 2″ of travel should show a taper of 0.1004″ on dia, half that on actual reading. Adjust the offset to get that reading. Turn part and then blue and check in a socket, adjust a srequired.

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

AI below.

To set up a lathe compound slide or a taper attachment for a No. 3 Morse Taper (MT3), the precise required half-angle (angle from centerline) is 1.4377° (or 1° 26′ 16″), which corresponds to a total included angle of 2.8754°. [1, 2]

The Mathematical Calculation
Morse Taper dimensions are inherently irregular because they were standardized based on actual physical gauges in the 19th century rather than a uniform mathematical formula. For an MT3 taper, the standard blueprint specifications are: [1, 2]
Large Diameter (\(D\)): 0.9380 inches (23.825 mm)
Small Diameter (\(d\)): 0.7780 inches (19.761 mm)
Taper Length (\(L\)): 3.1875 inches (81.000 mm)
Taper Per Inch (TPI): 0.050196 inches [1, 2, 3]

To find the angle from the center line (\(\alpha \)), use the right-triangle trigonometric formula:
\(\tan (\alpha )=\frac{D-d}{2\times L}\)
\(\tan (\alpha )=\frac{0.9380-0.7780}{2\times 3.1875}=\frac{0.160}{6.375}\approx 0.025098\)
\(\alpha =\arctan (0.025098)\approx \mathbf{1.4377}^{\mathbf{\circ }}\)

Emgee

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Is it the type which goes in the tailstock?
I used a boring head for that job with a carbide centre I made, though the principal is the same; I now have a Myford taper turning attachment which makes life easier.
The problem is that the required offset will vary according to the length of the workpiece.
Essentially its basic trigonometry, but the workpiece length is critical to the taper attachment’s offset.
Rather than calculating I set the offset manually.

Set up a commercial blank between the centres thin end to the tailstock.
Dial in with a clock in the toolpost to run parallel with the taper.
Take a test cut and fine tune with engineer’s blue to get the exact offset.

Repeat for each blank, whilst you have the attachment set.

I didn’t have a blank to copy, hence the longer procedure below;
The reason I made double ended ones was so I has enough metal to attach a drive dog, and I wasn’t sure how long I would later need for the blank parallel section(s).

I set up a length of metal with a centre drilling sticking out of the 3 jaw chuck, and used that to trap a commercial MT2 centre between it and the taper offset gizmo in the tailstock.
Projection length is a bit over  half the length of the intended twin arbour; i.e. length of a centre plus twice the blank part.
I could then set the taper angle with a dial gauge in the toolpost after trapping the commercial centre, thin end at the tailstock.
Remove the metal bar from the chuck and replace with a short pointed bar to act as a centre.
It needed a bit of thought to set the correct projection exactly, but roughly as above.
Turn and fine tune a taper.
Reverse the workpiece and cut the other end.

Bill

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

With the taper turning attachment fitted to the Smart & Brown model A at the museum, I found that increments in minutes of arc were nowhere near accurate enough to copy Morse tapers without having one of the same size to run an indicator along while setting up. The indicator must be set exactly on centre height setting up and the tool tip must also be exactly on centre height. Also you can only copy the same size Morse taper, each size is a different angle.

Morse tapers are better made by grinding, maybe you could buy a soft ended MT3 and machine that instead. RDG have one on ebay, number 373926170283.

[Bernard ReillyParticipant @bernardreilly64467]

Hi again and thanks to all for information received,

I do not need to machine a No 3 MT I just thought this gadget would be useful after a few trial cuts I am not so sure?

Thanks again to all.

Bernard Reilly Glasgow.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Lots of tapers are not so critical as Morse, your gadget will prove useful for long ones which exceed the travel of the top slide.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Generally its a lot easier to work in taper per foot, or a metric equivalent, than angle when needing accurate results with model engineer / home workshop standard equipment.

Test bar in the headstock taper with tenths thou or 0.002 mm reading gauge on the carriage working over 4 to 6 inches or so depending on the length of the bar makes it quite easy to get a very accurate taper.

Main issue with a relatively lightweight lathe is that the drag of the attachment can pivot the saddle a bit if the taper attachment isn’t as free running as it ought to be. Something a tenths reading gauge will really see. Obviously worse if the machine has significant wear.

Lathes lacking hold down gib on both sides of the saddle being particularly subject to this problem. My SouthBend Heavy 10 only had ahold down on the rear so careful adjustment of the taper turning attachment for free running was essential.

Clive

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

I bought one from Arrand many years ago for my Emco C5. For the best accuracy on critical tapers, the slide on these needs to be indicated so it’s horizontally true to the lathe bed. And that’s not exactly easy without a lot of trying. But they can work well. Royal in the U.S. produced at one time an extremely nice version with everything hardened and ground, a precision bubble level, screw adjustable slide, and it had a ball tipped live center.

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