End mills which type is best

End mills which type is best

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  • #274660
    petro1head
    Participant
      @petro1head

      if I was to buy some end mills I seem to have a couple of choices, plain shank or threaded shank. Which is best?  Also there seem to be 4 flute and 2 flute, again which is best

       

       

       

       

      Edited By petro1head on 31/12/2016 14:03:21

      #8470
      petro1head
      Participant
        @petro1head
        #274662
        John Haine
        Participant
          @johnhaine32865

          Threaded shank are needed only if you have an Autolock or Posilock type milling chuck – they screw into the collet and actually tighten it. They will however fit plain collets such as ER style.

          2 (or 3) flute cutters are able to cut at their centre, so can be plunged straight into a surface. They are good for cutting slots, also seem to be the best choice for aluminium. Sometimes called slot drills. 4 flute cutters generally need to cut from an edge as they can't be plunged.

          #274667
          petro1head
          Participant
            @petro1head

            Thanks john. So what type of holder will I need for plain shank and where is the best place to buy this stuff from

            #274673
            Involute Curve
            Participant
              @involutecurve

              ER collet systems are about as good as you will get for holding plain shank milling cutters, there are lots of suppliers of these about,

              Some 4 flute cutters can plunge!!

              HTH

              Shaun

              #274707
              Enough!
              Participant
                @enough
                Posted by Involute Curve on 31/12/2016 14:44:53:

                Some 4 flute cutters can plunge!!

                Some are advertised as "centre-cutting". Personally I've had limited success with them for that and usually use a slot-drill.

                I would imagine that they (the "centre-cutting" 4 flutes) would be difficult to sharpen.

                #274713
                John Reese
                Participant
                  @johnreese12848
                  Posted by Bandersnatch on 31/12/2016 17:12:50:

                  Posted by Involute Curve on 31/12/2016 14:44:53:

                  Some 4 flute cutters can plunge!!

                  Some are advertised as "centre-cutting". Personally I've had limited success with them for that and usually use a slot-drill.

                  I would imagine that they (the "centre-cutting" 4 flutes) would be difficult to sharpen.

                  If you sacrifice the ability to plunge, sharpening the 4 flute is relatively easy.

                  #274719
                  JasonB
                  Moderator
                    @jasonb

                    Sharpening centre cutting 4-flute cutters is easy with the right grinder, I have had no problem doing them with an EMG-12. Suppose its an upto date design unlike a lot of the T&C grinders we see mentioned here that were designed before ctr cutting 3 & 4 flute cutters became common.

                    #274721
                    Enough!
                    Participant
                      @enough
                      Posted by John Reese on 31/12/2016 17:54:17:

                      If you sacrifice the ability to plunge, sharpening the 4 flute is relatively easy.

                      What do you do with the "bit in the middle" then? Where the cutting edges meet. If you simply don't grind up to that point wouldn't you leave a "pip" or high area in the centre? Making sort of a counterbore in the centre to take that area out would be good but I don't know how you could do it practically.

                      (Speaking in ignorance because although I've fashioned several devices for sharpening end mills I haven't seriously knuckled down to doing it properly yet).

                      #274723
                      Bruce Edney
                      Participant
                        @bruceedney59949

                        I use mainly 4 flute carbides from this supplier – No interest other than a satisfied buyer

                        http://stores.ebay.com/hengyoutools/

                        Happy New Year everyone

                        #274727
                        petro1head
                        Participant
                          @petro1head

                          This seems to have gone a tad off topic.

                          Can someone recommend where the best place is to buy the collets and holder

                          #274729
                          JasonB
                          Moderator
                            @jasonb

                            One of these does the job for me, I added the rest of the collets over time as needed and now have a full set of 21 metric and 5 imperial. They do other size taper and R8 spindle versions as I'm not sure what mill you have.

                            Edited By JasonB on 31/12/2016 20:37:01

                            #274730
                            John Haine
                            Participant
                              @johnhaine32865

                              First question, what mill do you have and what shape is the spindle nose? If you have an R8 spindle (or haven't yet bought a mill and have the option to get one with R8) I'd recommend using R8 collets with a drawbar. You don't need a huge range of sizes anyway, R8 collets are quite cheap, they grip like b*****y, don't get stuck, and best of all they are almost flush with the end of the spindle when holding a cutter, which maximises the headroom you have.

                              If your spindle is morse taper, you can get MT finger collets which need a drawbar and have many of the same benefits of the R8, except they don't grip quite so well and the taper can get stuck (but you can make/get an ejecting drawbar design).

                              Finally you can get an ER chuck on a shank to fit your spindle. If your spindle is R8 then in my view there's no point in using ER, it just eats up headroom and reduces rigidity. For an MT spindle then at least you don't have the problem of ejecting a stuck taper to change the cutter if you use ER. Depending on the machine and the biggest size cutter you want to use, most people seem to use ER25 or 32.

                              Most of the usual ME suppliers have collets and chucks, Arc Eurotrade, RDG, Chronos etc. Personally I normally buy from Arc as they've always given good service and have good quality stuff. I bought my R8 collets from J&L Industrial Supply. Or you can buy through eBay, with the usual caveats.

                              Personally I have R8 on my Myford VMB and have never seen the need for anything different except for drills that won't fit in a standard collet. My little CNC Novamill has an Int30 spindle taper so I use an ER16 collet chuck in that (you can't use collets direct in an Int30 taper).

                              #274735
                              I.M. OUTAHERE
                              Participant
                                @i-m-outahere

                                The only thing i can add to Johns comprehensive answer is if you go the ER system make sure you get the ball bearing type nut as it tightens up much better than the plain nut.

                                I'm sure that Ketan at Arc Eurotrade can sort out a collet system and a set of cutters for you , i would start off with a boxed set of cutters as you will blunten or break them sooner or later and once you gain experience you simply buy replacements as needed.

                                Edit : removed " better quality " as the set of cutters may be of an acceptable quality to start with .

                                Edited By XD 351 on 31/12/2016 21:32:43

                                #274738
                                Emgee
                                Participant
                                  @emgee

                                  As John states depends somewhat on the type of spindle your machine has, I would add also depends on the maximum size of end mill it is capable of working with. If max size is 10mm then there's no point in buying an ER25/32/40 type holder, the greater diameter closing nut may prevent access to the part being milled/drilled.

                                  I believe any of the suppliers mentioned by others will provide similarly accurate low cost products but you may have to accept differing amounts of run-out on the cheaper end collets.

                                  Emgee

                                  #274744
                                  Jon
                                  Participant
                                    @jon

                                    Hate ER types having had to use three types over the dreaded years, many a job scrapped not to mention taking an eternity to change over.

                                    Presumably small mill would be MT, so much like R8 these never fail to hold cutters and no lost height. **LINK**

                                    #274751
                                    petro1head
                                    Participant
                                      @petro1head
                                      Posted by John Haine on 31/12/2016 20:45:25:

                                      First question, what mill do you have and what shape is the spindle nose? If you have an R8 spindle (or haven't yet bought a mill and have the option to get one with R8) I'd recommend using R8 collets with a drawbar. You don't need a huge range of sizes anyway, R8 collets are quite cheap, they grip like b*****y, don't get stuck, and best of all they are almost flush with the end of the spindle when holding a cutter, which maximises the headroom you have.

                                      If your spindle is morse taper, you can get MT finger collets which need a drawbar and have many of the same benefits of the R8, except they don't grip quite so well and the taper can get stuck (but you can make/get an ejecting drawbar design).

                                      Finally you can get an ER chuck on a shank to fit your spindle. If your spindle is R8 then in my view there's no point in using ER, it just eats up headroom and reduces rigidity. For an MT spindle then at least you don't have the problem of ejecting a stuck taper to change the cutter if you use ER. Depending on the machine and the biggest size cutter you want to use, most people seem to use ER25 or 32.

                                      Most of the usual ME suppliers have collets and chucks, Arc Eurotrade, RDG, Chronos etc. Personally I normally buy from Arc as they've always given good service and have good quality stuff. I bought my R8 collets from J&L Industrial Supply. Or you can buy through eBay, with the usual caveats.

                                      Personally I have R8 on my Myford VMB and have never seen the need for anything different except for drills that won't fit in a standard collet. My little CNC Novamill has an Int30 spindle taper so I use an ER16 collet chuck in that (you can't use collets direct in an Int30 taper).

                                      I have the Warco copy of the Emco. I think it has a MT taper in the spindle http://www.lathes.co.uk/emcomiller/page4.html

                                      #275211
                                      petro1head
                                      Participant
                                        @petro1head

                                        Update, a pal of mine had given me a box full of milling tools and collets, I will get some photos and start a new thread

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