ME Shows

This topic has 37 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 17 January 2012 at 06:04 by Springbok.

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15 January 2012 at 08:56 #82083
Wolfie
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@wolfie
I was wondering if there are any model engineering shows in the north east?

I see theres the ‘Ally Pally’ and Sandown both really too far for me, Harrogate is handier but are there none in Teesside or Newcastle?

With my other modelling head on (www.nrmodeltruck.co.uk) there are regional shows all over the country and 2 or 3 big ones each year.
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15 January 2012 at 08:56 #5863
Wolfie
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@wolfie
15 January 2012 at 09:54 #82091
Gray62
Participant
@gray62
Hehe, I did a search for Northern shows and found a new one – IN Manchester!!

It seems that the organisers have little geographical knowledge as this is hailed as the showcase exhibition for the North!!

Being originally from the North East ( I grew up in the lands of the 3 great rivers), with the industrial heritage of that area, I am surprised that there are not more shows, as far as I am aware, Harrogate is the only one, might be worth trawling local ME clubs, many of which exhibit at Harrogate and are from the Teeside.Durham, North Yorkshire area, to see if they run any club level shows or events.
15 January 2012 at 11:13 #82095
Wolfie
Participant
@wolfie
Haha I know, that thing about calling Manchester ‘up north’ bugs the hell out of us. Its barely 50 miles north of Birmingham yet is hailed as the north of England. Its so politicians can scuttle up there and say they are thinking about us. They seem to have forgotten North Yorkshire and Durham and Northumberland and the Lakes.

I am a member of my local club which is Pickering
15 January 2012 at 13:04 #82097
Ady1
Participant
@ady1
You should try living in the land of the little Jock people

Where David was at until recently really was out in the sticks, even by Scots standards

He was closer to Noggin the Nog than he was to London.

Edited By Ady1 on 15/01/2012 13:05:32
15 January 2012 at 13:11 #82099
John Stevenson 1
Participant
@johnstevenson1
Yes yet another new show at Manchester to dilute an already overloaded calendar.

Years ago there used to be one main show at Wembley and scatted club shows around the country. Granted this wasn’t suitable due to travelling and the crowds you came across.

This gradually spread out but has now IMO reached a silly extreme in the given current climate.

Lets take some fictitious company selling castings, bar stock etc for the muddle engineer and we will call it ABC Models. Now at the start of a year they have to work out what shows they will stand. Always in the back of their minds is if I don’t stand it will my competitors ?

So going whole hog they choose Ally Pally, Manchester, Harrogate,Bristol Midlands and Sandown and miss the club shows. That’s 6 shows. A show takes about 8 to 10 working days out of the years time slot.

So minimum is 6 3/4 working weeks and that’s counting weekends, 9 weeks if you don’t.

Max is 8 1/2 working weeks inc weekends, 12 weeks not including weekends.

This is serious lost time.

Add to this stand costs, transport, [ at least three traders run 42 tonne artics for show transport plus other vehicles and these don’t come cheap ] then hotels and wages.

At what point does this become non-viable ? All it takes is one phone call to their competitors and don’t think for one moment they don’t speak to them and an agreement not to do a show.

Pie in the sky? no it happened over Pickering, the trade boycotted it and it folded.

Logically we need three shows North, Midlands and South to cover logistics.

The UK isn’t such a big place.

Wolfie is asking about shows in the North but he’s based at Pickering, it’s only a spit from Harrogate.

Short of living in Cornwall or the Scottish Highlands most people could do two shows per year depending on where they lived if we had 3 shows spread out.

With the exception of Sandown which is funded by MHS and Bristol which actually is a club show, all the rest have to show a profit to exist. Diluting the show pool will not help long term.

There has always been advertising but until the last fw years internet sales have never encroached but now traders rely on these and actually make more money off them than the shows. If they have to shut sales for 6 to 12 weeks a year whilst they are away they may decide they need to take anew look at expenses and outgoings.

Just my take on it.

John S
15 January 2012 at 17:17 #82112
Wolfie
Participant
@wolfie
There was a show in Pickering?? When was that then. And why was it boycotted??
15 January 2012 at 17:26 #82116
jason udall
Participant
@jasonudall57142
only one major trade show..MACH..
NEC every …FOUR years!
15 January 2012 at 17:39 #82119
AndyB
Participant
@andyb47186
Hi all,

Understanding John’s points completely, we (my wife and I) attend Sandown as our choice of venue but being ‘Southerners’ it is only a three and a half hour journey each way from East Anglia.

What has to be considered is the number of attendees in any area. Obviously, we are in a rural area so not many people to attract the sales that trade stands expect to make in order to make their attendance worthwhile.

While it would be nice to have a venue on our doorstep, we are grateful that there are not enough people living here to make it worthwhile to hold a major exhibition.

We can travel to where we need to be and then can return home to our rural paradise knowing that nobody is going to follow us.

I am not having a go Wolfie, I realise that there are not that many model engineers around here; there only appears to be three clubs in Norfolk and Suffolk, so I don’t expect to be catered for. How many and of what size are your local model engineering clubs? That will give you an answer to whether it is worthwhile investing in the huge outlay of a full scale exhibition.

From what I can gather, you need about 1000 attendees per day to make it viable.

Andy
15 January 2012 at 17:47 #82121
John Stevenson 1
Participant
@johnstevenson1
Ran for 3 years at the Pickering show ground definitely 2006 /7 not sure if it was 2005 for the first or 2008 for the last.

Basically the hall wasn’t finished, generators supplying power, porta loo’s etc.

Because of this, lack of attendance but still the usual high trade costs meaning no money or goodwill to be made a large majority refused to attend forcing the organisers to abandon the project.

John S.
15 January 2012 at 17:52 #82123
jason udall
Participant
@jasonudall57142
shows?
Any clubs in West Dorset… I say west dorset ‘cos dorset “seems” to be centered on Poole. Axminster is better for me
15 January 2012 at 18:17 #82124
David Clark 13
Participant
@davidclark13
Hi There
You should consider Bath and west, Bristol and Taunton.
This is for shows, not clubs.
regards David
15 January 2012 at 18:27 #82125
jason udall
Participant
@jasonudall57142
thanks David

Like you say..shows …Taunton might be a goer but looking for club close enough for meetings.
15 January 2012 at 19:24 #82136
Ketan Swali
Participant
@ketanswali79440
Many of the points made here are valid.

For traders, attending shows is like a balancing act of needing to be seen and/or making a profit. Traders may see a spike in revenue from sales at a show, but in many cases, it is “fools gold”.

Take ARC as an example. Sales made at a show are fantastic, if you have the right number of visitors who you manage to service. ARC can account for each item sold at the show with a clear audit of costs, revenue and profit from attending, because all ARCs products are barcoded and scanned through the tills. How many other traders can provide this level of accountability?

In my opinion, if traders were to carry out this exercise, many of them would find that the profits made are in fact very marginal, or they break-even, or they run at a loss. Not knowing the real picture, they think they have done very well, with the common statement to themselves “it will all come out in the wash at the end of the financial year”.

Revenue and profit are not the only driving factor. “Fear” that one will loose out to competitors is also a factor. If company X is attending, why isn’t company Y?.Company Y will loose out?..Question is will they really??, only company Y can answer that one .

“Needing to be Seen”..”waving the flag”..these are also reasons for attending. Other then instant sales and profit, this is a good reason for attending, with hope that future sales can be obtained.

This year, ARC will be attending the show at Harrogate with machines only, taking the option of “needing to be seen – waiving the flag”. ARC will not be selling accessories at the show. ARC apologies for this, a decision taken after great consideration of factors mentioned above.

Ketan at ARC.
15 January 2012 at 19:26 #82138
David Clark 13
Participant
@davidclark13
Hi Jason

Wimborne, Bournemouth, Taunton, West Huntspill, Newton Abbot. The rest are too far down.

You might want to consider East Somerset at the Bath and West showground.

Lovely club and a great bunch of people.

Weymouth has one but I have not been there yet.

regards David

Edited By David Clark 1 on 15/01/2012 19:27:24
15 January 2012 at 19:46 #82141
jason udall
Participant
@jasonudall57142
Thanks again. Weymouth is on doorstep.
Will look into that.
15 January 2012 at 20:49 #82148
Sub Mandrel
Participant
@submandrel
One issue is how long a company has to shut down for a show. Reeves seem to lose about two weeks trading or more every time they go to a show. I’m sure others manage to lose a lot less.

Neil
15 January 2012 at 23:43 #82177
Bazyle
Participant
@bazyle
As with most industry nowadays managers need to analyse their operations. Any trader taking 8 days to service a 3 day show will fail in any business. Apart from obvious difficulties with heavy machines most well designed stands could be packed in a couple of hours and I have seen even lathe/mill vendors do just that in the past from Olympia. Loading access is hopeless at some venues which is a problem.

Travelling costs can only get worse so the organisers need to provide better value for remote customers and attract more locals with diversity as was the case 10-15 years ago at Olympia and Wembley.

One organiser runs a show for model engineering one weekend, then for boats another weekend, and something else again on another weekend. 3 tickets and 3 sets of travel costs loses all my custom but one show 3 times the size might be worth my time.
15 January 2012 at 23:54 #82179
Ketan Swali
Participant
@ketanswali79440
Neil,

What you say is true. ARC can loose between one to two weeks of trading, depending on which show it does. Harrogate – about one weeks trading, Midlands about two weeks.

ARCs stock control system is linked in “real time” to its tills, telephone sales and website. If you are selling at the show, it means ARC has to disconnect its website and telephone sales from Tuesday before the show, as it has to do last of its packing on Tuesday and set-up on Wednesday/Thursday for a show which starts on Friday and ends on Sunday. Following Monday un-pack, re-stock onto shelves, update stock system, and resume normal trading on Tuesday.

For Midlands show which is longer running upto Tuesday/Wednesday, same as above, but resume normal trading on Thursday or Friday.

So one to two weeks, if done properly. For this reason, ARC is only going to take machines to the show, and remain open for normal internet, trade counter, and telephone sales. No sales of accessories at the show..unfortunately.

Ketan at ARC.
15 January 2012 at 23:54 #82180
John Stevenson 1
Participant
@johnstevenson1
Bazyle,

First off the regular shows which you see as 3 days and actually 4 if you count up the setup day and the organisers won’t allow large setups on the morning of the first day. So take 4 days away from 8 and that’s 4 days. Split that in two for both ends of the show and that’s 2 days at base getting ready, parts out of stock and into stands, lorries loaded etc and in many cases the lorries have to depart on day two to get there for the setup day

After the show stock has to go back into the racks and some form of stock take made, again the lorries may not show up until day 7.

So no 8 days for a FOUR day show is not excessive.

John S.

EDIT Ketan beat me to it whilst I was typing, mind you he’s shorter than I am so nearer the keyboard

Edited By John Stevenson on 15/01/2012 23:56:42
16 January 2012 at 00:14 #82186
Ketan Swali
Participant
@ketanswali79440
Bazyle,

Depending on a traders product range, it takes more than a couple of hours to load up goods for the show. When ARC sold accessories at the show until end of last year, loading of goods for the show started about one week before the show started. We still ended up taking more quantity for some items and less of others. You can’t win.

Ketan at ARC.
16 January 2012 at 00:45 #82191
DMB
Participant
@dmb
I could use my “old codgers” bus ticket for a 20 min. free ride into centre of Brighton to see Modelworld Exhibition in Feb. Hows that for on your doorstep. I probably wont go again this year even though my club, Worthing Model Engineers will have a stand. Reason is that its quite expensive to get in for what I see as essentially a “pins & glue” model xbn. (Table-top railways/trams/knitting/sewing and god knows what.) One of the model railway clubs once actually told me I belong to those “Dirty Metal bashers” in Worthing!!

I will of course, attend Worthing Club`s own xbn. in April this year. This will be a purely engineering xbn. Happy dirty metal bashing!
16 January 2012 at 02:11 #82196
Bazyle
Participant
@bazyle
Arc are demonstrating that they are modifying their behaviour to improve their efficiency. This is what is required to make shows worthwhile for them and other s may need to do the same.

At the end of some shows one can see examples – eg one trader is taking books off shelves and packing them in boxes, then lugging the boxes out 2 at a time before unscrewing the bookcase and packing it on top. Another has thought it through and tips the customised bookcase on its back on a trolley, puts another on top and they clip together etc so the equivalent of 20 boxes goes out the door in five minutes with no effort.

Efficient traders make their storage boxes work as display cases and for transport , so no trans-shipment – hey that’s a lesson the GWR accepted on 23 May 1892 but some people still want to run a stopping goods train in the era of the container.

Our club used to need a van and several cars to get a team to the ME show to take an hour to screw the stand together, plus we had the expense of storing the complex stand throughout the year. A rethink and new tables take one man minutes to carry, flip out the legs, thow over cloth and job done ready for models.

I have spent the weekend at a show. We packed up in 20 minutes from shutdown without any rush but that was due to not moving my car closer. Some traders were whizzing past with a trolley and filled a Transit in the same time. However I have no doubt other people were faffing around until 8pm.

The final message is – evolution.
16 January 2012 at 07:47 #82198
Springbok
Participant
@springbok
Hi David and Wolfie

You have totaly missed out the Bristol Thornbury The BSMEE Exhibition takes over a large leasure centre with 3 large halls FREE parking for the 3 days bring your camper

loads of traders including the big boys. It is a club exhibition run by a club and if any profits not going into some beancounters funds.

So Wolfie and everyone else come to Thornbury please all look me up usually stewarding on the club stand for the 3 days or haveing a coffee in our hospitality room

or occasionally the bar upstair. there is a lift (Clean) .

We have half page adverts in ME nearer the time

I will now stop beating my drum.

Bob
16 January 2012 at 08:19 #82201
David Clark 13
Participant
@davidclark13
Hi There

I did not miss out the Bristol Exhibition, I mentioned it in the first post about exhibitions. In the club post it was just to far from the member asking the question.

Last time I went to Bristol it was not in West Dorset.

regards David

Edited By David Clark 1 on 16/01/2012 08:20:42
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