Wills and workshops

This topic has 28 replies, 21 voices, and was last updated 27 February 2014 at 17:07 by IanT.

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23 February 2014 at 11:47 #144753
Tony Martyr
Participant
@tonymartyr14488
My workshop, like many of yours, contains tools, cabinets and machines built up from 1960 when I started my apprenticeship. I have no living relative or friend who has an interest in miniature engineering and, living in rural Shropshire, I know of no local model engineering club.

So how should I deal with the contents of my workshop (to my relations 'my stuff&#39 in my Will?

I don't want it all to sit and rust or get casually misused; this sounds silly as I shall be past caring!

Are there recommended (honest) dealers who do this type of 'house clearance?

Years ago I took over the job of an area Engineer based in New Zealand. He had dropped dead unexpectedly and I had to travel from the UK to sort things out. I knew he had been a keen model engineer with a large workshop but I got there 2 days too late. His wife had sold the lot to a scrap merchant for almost nothing – I have never forgotten looking at that empty workshop.
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23 February 2014 at 11:47 #23160
Tony Martyr
Participant
@tonymartyr14488
23 February 2014 at 12:03 #144755
Mike Teaman
Participant
@miketeaman64279
I spent a few days a couple of years ago, clearing my father’s “stuff”. Most of it was given away to his friends, who my mother nicknamed “the borrowers”. As they lived 200 miles from me, I couldn’t take the big stuff home with me.

The removal van was full of household items and the “greasy stuff” was banned.

What I wouldn’t give now for all the “stuff” that went.

My advice would be to dispose of it earlier rather than later so that it can be used by those who enjoy it rather than those who make profit from it.
Mike
23 February 2014 at 12:12 #144756
jason udall
Participant
@jasonudall57142
I can think of only two ways to do this .and they split into pre and post

Pre..dispose of as you see fit while you can…down side..many but most of all you are deprived of “stuff” while living…

Post..appoint an executor ..who whould need to share your goals. And be suitably informed. . ( both technically and aware /willing to take on job..)..downside..some other poor soul gets the problem
23 February 2014 at 12:15 #144757
John McNamara
Participant
@johnmcnamara74883
Hi Tony

If the relatives don't want the stuff, hmm actually your treasured collection why not leave it to a men's shed or rather **LINK**
There are Lots of them…. **LINK**

At least you know your lifetime collection will continue to serve and help others.
Even honest, SIC dealers will only pay a fraction of the true worth.

Regards
john
I live in Australia We have many men's sheds also **LINK**
23 February 2014 at 12:16 #144758
jason udall
Participant
@jasonudall57142
Maybe the best ( of course you would have considered this of possible)..donate to your local Club..sale for funds or as library etc…this is great if you have a club that you feel that way about. …
23 February 2014 at 12:17 #144759
Ady1
Participant
@ady1
I would think that leaving the entire contents of ones workshop to the nearest ME society would be the most sensible thing to do

All I ever get is blank stares when any relative sees my carefully acquired workshop

The cash value is irrelevant… yer deid

There's plenty of other monetary value items for them to squabble over
23 February 2014 at 12:51 #144765
John Stevenson 1
Participant
@johnstevenson1
Speaking from current experience just don't worry, you won't be in a position to.

I'm currently sorting out my wife's belongings after she died suddenly in late January.

She was setting up a small shop for doing wooden boxes and trinket boxes and I'm currently sorting this out but whatever I do with this stuff sell, scrap or tip it, it will in no way affect her.

If you have anything you treasure and would like to go to someone, like a model then make it clear to them that it's theirs and document it. However not being morbid there comes a time you need to take stock and decide if you need all the clap trap that surrounds you.

I made this decision about a year ago when we were thinking of moving and realised we couldn't because of all the baggage we had around up and I stared to downsize. In the past year i have got rid of 7 machines, largish ones, Mind you bought two more new ones even larger but the wake up call in January has hastened my resolve to only own what I need, not think I need.
23 February 2014 at 13:28 #144773
Bazyle
Participant
@bazyle
I always think it sad to see items on ebay labelled 'don't know what this is' either from relatifve who never learnt about their family member's interests or worse a dealer who picked up a treasure trove and is too stupid or lazy to do any research.

One of the important things is to keep bits together that belong together but separate the bits that don't. Huge numbers of imortant ancilliaries go missing. For example a recent Chines lathe must be packaged with its chucks, steadies and (most likely missing) extra change wheels for metric but the collet set would be an extra.
Woefully few model engineers have the breadth of knowledge to identify or value half the odds and ends that are stashed in an old timer's workshop.

That reminds me I must do some more work on my special disposal file – Picture, full description, description line for ebay, actual value, value for tax, auction starting value, target value.
23 February 2014 at 13:48 #144777
Ketan Swali
Participant
@ketanswali79440
Posted by Bazyle on 23/02/2014 13:28:06:

I always think it sad to see items on ebay labelled 'don't know what this is' either from relatifve who never learnt about their family member's interests or worse a dealer who picked up a treasure trove and is too stupid or lazy to do any research.

One of the important things is to keep bits together that belong together but separate the bits that don't. Huge numbers of imortant ancilliaries go missing. For example a recent Chines lathe must be packaged with its chucks, steadies and (most likely missing) extra change wheels for metric but the collet set would be an extra.
Woefully few model engineers have the breadth of knowledge to identify or value half the odds and ends that are stashed in an old timer's workshop.

That reminds me I must do some more work on my special disposal file – Picture, full description, description line for ebay, actual value, value for tax, auction starting value, target value.

When we used to do shows, some customers came along with cash, buy what they wanted, put the items in plain bag and say 'head office shmbo' will never know what i spent today, specially as i will enter the house through my garage where i will leave the bag with contents. So, the thing is, their partner would never know the value. So, after this person dies, what do you expect the partner to do?

Bazyl has the right idea, but how many practice this?. Every now and then I get a call from a relative of a person who has died, asking me what I think the value of a used lathe or mill or anything else left behind could be.

Ketan at ARC

Edited By Ketan Swali on 23/02/2014 13:52:30
23 February 2014 at 14:20 #144781
John Stevenson 1
Participant
@johnstevenson1
Other side of this coin is the one who do declare it to the Interior Revenue and state things like when I pop off you will be set for life just to justify their expenses.

Result is down the line after Fred has popped his clog's and gone on the the Great Imperial / Metric argument in the sky his widow rings a friend of a friend and get in touch with someone to clear the workshop.

Now this is from experience I I used to get this quite a lot, not that I'm a dealer but things filter down and running the Homeworkshop.org.uk site doesn't help. In fact I refuse to even pay a visit any more – don't need the bits and certainly don't need the hassle.

So you get there [ 2 gallons of diesel ] have a look round at usually is basically junk, work out how many trips to the tip is needed, work out what will sell and take your time into the equation, you make a bid only to be told you are robbing her.

Truthfully, the last phone call I had was from a Widow who was trying to dispose of hubby priceless Bridgeport. an early step speed model, no extras, no DRO, no power feed.

She informs me that he paid £3,500 for it from a dealer and would like the same. I told her market prices were currently about £700 to £900 on a good day and remember if you are buying this to resell with a machine that size buying price needs to be virtually free. The phone call didn't end on a good note but hey I don't care.

Now if you are selling to someone who wants it the current price applies but that buyer won't want to clear the lot and do 3 tip runs with a 3 tonne van.

The value of the stuff is in the small tools but that takes time and effort to sort and list, time that somehow needs to be paid for. even if you are working times isn't free. Time is finite.

I am under no disillusions with the value of my stuff, in fact some is negative equity given it's size and location. The big CNC mill is probably worth £210 in scrap alone but it's going to take 2 guys all day, with lifting gear to get it out in pieces. So does it go for scrap whilst it's in bits or do you spend another day putting it al back together to get running and see if anyone wants a 3 tonne 440v CNC mill made in 1989 ?
23 February 2014 at 14:59 #144783
Cornish Jack
Participant
@cornishjack
Interesting, this … some parallels with my present position – workshops destroyed and contents spread beneath seawater, sludge and wreckage. The recoverable items – remarkably numerous, are now divided between temporary shed and various storage areas courtesy of local builder. My decision to radically downsize was helped by the incident and the surplus items are for disposal at whatever price they fetch. All of these workshop tools, bits, whatever, were bought originally for my pleasure. Having them around for (in some cases) 30+ years has amortised their value (to me) to scrap or zero … they don't owe me (or my relatives), anything. If a dealer or anyone else is willing to make the effort to remove them and make value of them, monetary or otherwise, good luck to them – I've had my value out of them.

The lady in JS's encounter is not untypical – "I paid £xxx for this so it must still be worth that much" Well, maybe it is but the owner will have had that much pleasure from it during its time in use, so let someone else share the pleasure. As an example, one of the sheds held a very low mileage Honda 90 which I couldn't use any more – kick start and gammy leg. Possibly a couple of hundred to someone prepared to get it road ready but a young labourer in the builder's team is now the proud owner has made a marvellous job of it and can't stop grinning!!

One doesn't have to go the mercenary route but it may need a bit of a shock to the system to provide the impetus!

Rgds

Bill
23 February 2014 at 15:36 #144788
NJH
Participant
@njh
Hmmm – I find this a strangely appropriate thread.

I’m currently in the process of sorting out the estate of my aunt – at 99 years the last of the bunch. I’m finding this an unexpectedly stressful process and it has led me to ponder on the task I might leave to my nearest and dearest when I, in turn, depart. Now my take is that, once I’m gone, what happens to my “stuff” doesn’t matter a jot to me. What does concern me however is the stress and aggravation that might be caused to my family in getting shot of my lifetimes collection of machines, tools, materials and “things that might come in useful one day”. I hope that I have a few years to go yet but my resolution, as soon as the current situation cools down, is to get rid of the “might be useful” and then consider if and how I should “downsize” the machines and rationalize the tools. I’ve always been attracted to the smaller side of modelling so maybe a more compact set-up will do.

John – my deepest sympathy to you. I can’t imagine how difficult it must be to deal with a tragedy like yours.

Regards

Norman
23 February 2014 at 15:46 #144789
Oompa Lumpa
Participant
@oompalumpa34302
Well, this is my recent story.

I answered an advert that was offering a machine for sale. I arrived at the House (Alladins Cave) to have a look and see if it was "as described" (we have all been there). The machine was indeed exactly as the lady described it and we got chatting.

Turns out her elderly father had been an avid engineer but had suffered in the latter days of his life with ill health, but connected to the Internet. Now, I have discussed the story with a couple of my friends and frankly, if I had been the gentleman in question – I would have done the same. To all intents and purposes, he say at his computer and ordered stuff – "For when he got Better".

V-Blocks? How many did you want? Four sets still in their boxes, Drill Sets? Twelve months later and there are at LEAST thirty sets still there. Calipers? What would you like? Digital, analogue or Dial – What size did you want? Parallels? Four sets, boxed. I won't go on, this was a double garage so packed (on Industrial Shelving) you couldn't get in the place. Drill chucks? Still about forty lying about. Toolholders for the QCTP? I counted fifty and stopped. Times three though as there were three different toolholders. And lathe tools? Holy Moly!

You will have seen some of my posts trying to identify some of the stuff. There wasn't a lathe – there were five or six. With all the changewheels and everything all stored in the most unlikely places. And Changewheels Backplates Chucks and you name it for machinery the chap no longer owned. I have been going back and forth for six months now and finally we have ONE workbench cleared. There are three more to go. I am not receiving a penny for my efforts though I have kindly been given stuff I have not asked for. I am just hopeful that if anything happens to me someone will come along and help my family out.

I am also fortunate. My good lady knows what the stuff costs and in many instances – Ketan's kit from ARC for example – the price is on the label. And when I do buy stuff second hand I try not to take advantage. Though I will say that ebay is the exception and if I get it for a bargain – in my eyes – then it IS a bargain and the seller really should have tried harder. Though many older bits of kit, as John has pointed out, although expensive at time of purchase no longer are as desirable or as expensive so you cannot hope to attain what they were worth. It is what they will fetch now. I have however obtained some vintage kit that I covet and it is obviously valuable, but it sits on my desk because I think it is beautifully made.

This is a really tough one and having now gone through the whole experience I will certainly be planning ahead.

graham.
23 February 2014 at 16:12 #144793
Gordon W
Participant
@gordonw
The one thing I do know is that whatever you might say in you will, when the time comes nobody will take a blind bit of notice. Unless maybe you have a good and tenacious executor.
23 February 2014 at 18:20 #144826
nigel jones 5
Participant
@nigeljones5
Seriously this has to be the most depressing thread I ever read on here!
23 February 2014 at 18:55 #144836
OH CHUFF!
Participant
@ohchuff
I read in the paper last year an elderly gentleman had left his house and a plot of land to an animal charity. He stipulated in his will the land with trees and pond should be left for the benefit of wildlife. The charity sold the land to the developers the old chap had been rebuffing for years.

My father in law died recently so my wife is sorting out his estate (he left no will). This prompted her to ask about my tools, guns and vehicles. If I get any notice I will sell them all, if I don't I have told her who to call and roughly how much to expect (realistically). I have already made a will and update it when needed.

It is depressing to think about your own mortality but unless you want to leave behind a big mess that will upset those left, who will already be upset then getting organised is the way to go.

CHUFF
23 February 2014 at 19:05 #144839
Barnaby Wilde
Participant
@barnabywilde70941
Posted by fizzy on 23/02/2014 18:20:47:

Seriously this has to be the most depressing thread I ever read on here!

But with the average age on here around 210yrs old it's a very relevant subject.

A lot of the best machinery only comes to market when dad or grandad pops his clogs !

The most difficult thing I have ever done is to sort out the affairs of my father, shortly followed by my mother. Completely losing it when I found the Gat gun in a bottom drawer that she confiscated off me when I was 14.

I don't want my kids to have to go through what I did, my every wish is documented outside of the will. Some of my 'stuff' goes to good homes, some of it will be sold with my estimate of its true value noted. Some of it will be offered at an auction amongst my mates at my wake, just like a soldiers kit.

There is 1 motorbike I wish to be buried but not necessarily in my grave, along with my favourite Longbow, my Swiss army penknife & the polaroid photo's I took of each of my children within minutes of their birth.
23 February 2014 at 19:13 #144841
John Stevenson 1
Participant
@johnstevenson1
Posted by NJH on 23/02/2014 15:36:15:. I hope that I have a few years to go yet but my resolution, as soon as the current situation cools down, is to get rid of the “might be useful” and then consider if and how I should “downsize” the machines and rationalize the tools. I’ve always been attracted to the smaller side of modelling so maybe a more compact set-up will do.

John – my deepest sympathy to you. I can’t imagine how difficult it must be to deal with a tragedy like yours.

Regards

Norman

Thank you Norman.

I had, still have to an extent in other sheds, the useful item syndrome.

However when I was having the Big Tidy Up ™ I realised that boxes on the back of the bench only ever had things added to them, never raked through for items.

So on the surmise that what you don't know doesn't hurt I closed my eyes and swiped everything off and into the skip.

Mow if I had sorted them i would have seen something, scrapped it and wanted it two days later. This way that never applied.

Did the same with a big cupboard in a corner, because of where it was, blocked in by a machine it had not been opened in 10 years and I had no idea what was in it.

Whole cupboard went down the scrapyard unopened.
23 February 2014 at 20:03 #144851
martin perman 1
Participant
@martinperman1
Gentlemen,

When my paternal grandfather died his wife told my Dad that the contents of the garage and workshop was for him, myself and my brother to sort and share so for several weekends we travelled to the house to split the spoils, one Saturday whilst we were enjoying a sandwich, my dads step mum came into the room with a shammy leather pouch and box and asked him what she should do with them, dad took them and opened the leather pouch and found himself looking at a Webley Officers Revolver and in the box the bullets, dad was off down the local police station as fast as he could get there, he was totally unaware they had even existed, he came back from the police station a much happier man

My wife and I have only sorted our wills in the last eighteen months and they basically state who ever is left does what ever they wish and when that person dies it all goes to our daughter who is fully aware of what I have as she helps me take my stationary engines to rally's and she is also fully aware of their value.

Martin Perman

Edited By martin perman on 23/02/2014 20:17:14
23 February 2014 at 21:15 #144862
Ray Lyons
Participant
@raylyons29267
What a depressing subject, it has made me think on this miserable Sunday evening. Now fast closing on the big 80, I think it is best to leave someone else to worry about it but aware of my experience with the scrappy, it would be nice to see a young engineer enjoy it rather than end up in some foreign scrap yard.

I recall about 30 years ago when shutting down a works, all the stores were auctioned off and were sold on the basis of rack contents. The day following the auction, I was passing the stores where a scrap man had two skips at the entrance, one for steel and the other for brass etc. Two guys were throwing boxes tools into the steel skip which included new lathe and milling cutters. To the scrappy, these were low value and he checked with a magnet to make sure he did not throw out "valuable" non ferrous scrap with the rubbish. That also was a depressing day.
23 February 2014 at 22:21 #144879
John Stevenson 1
Participant
@johnstevenson1
What is even more depressing is that sorting out on Ebay tonight getting prices because lets face it they set the prices now and ower Gerts beloved Wilcox and Gibbs overlocker was listed under the sold items for £5.50 and two bids.

Exact same machine in exact same cabinet. Laugh is though if he'd took the clutch motor off it, thrown the rest away he'd have made £30 for the motor……..

it only goes to enforce what I wrote earlier as I'm sure she thought it was worth in the hundreds.
24 February 2014 at 06:53 #144894
Ray Lyons
Participant
@raylyons29267
Been thinking on this subject overnight and have decided it is time to start selling and stop hoarding. At least that way, hopefully it will go to someone who loves workshops.

I recently sold a Myford ML7 to a model engineer. I had upgraded to a Super7 with gearbox etc., and the ML7 was in the back of the garage. I did't advertise but my son heard of this fellow who was looking for a lathe so he could build a steam engine so he rang me to ask if it was still in the garage and when I heard that it was for a fellow modeller, I quoted a reasonable price. The expression on this guy's face was a treat, he was like a kid with a new toy. Seeing this, i also threw in some cutting tools to get him started and a new copy of Ian Bradleys ML7 manual.

Although I guess the deal left me about £100 short of the market price the sheer joy I got from seeing this chap carefully placing the lathe in his trailer and covering it in protective padding before carefully strapping it down made my day. I can only hope that he makes that steam engine.

The next thing is, listing all that has to go, Could well end up with a bigger list to keep than the sale items.
24 February 2014 at 10:21 #144915
John Stevenson 1
Participant
@johnstevenson1
Did it really go a lot cheaper ray ?

Been listing some of Gerts stuff on Ebay last night and not been on there for a bit and it's a total minefield now.

You have two categories Payment and posting, both have drop down menus with 8 or 9 digit codes at the side that tell you what you can charge postage etc

Not very clear, even the collection slot has a code and doesn't say collection.

I spent far more time that I should have, finished up listing a big mobility scooter for £5.50 postage world wide and generally got pi$$ed off.

End of the day I'll have to pay 10 to 15% fees so is it that good a deal ?

I have noticed that the stats on homeworkshop.org.uk have been going thru the roof recently, wonder if this is why ?

It's not a plug for the site We make nothing out of it, the adverts barely pay for the site, in fact with the move to bigger servers with more space we will probably be in a hole again but not moaning, it's a service, not a living.

Unfortunately Gerts stuff doesn't fall under the remit of the rules so it's got to be Ebay but I know where the rest of my sort out is going.
24 February 2014 at 10:25 #144916
Roger Williams 2
Participant
@rogerwilliams2
Hello all, Ive decided that if possible, I would like one of the workshops on the West Somerset Railway to have my stuff if possible, or at least the proceeds. Just my contribution to keeping a much loved organisation going. Cheers.
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