Windows is dying

[Russell Eberhardt]

On Russell Eberhardt Said:

On JA Said:

 

Sorry, but bring back FORTRAN 5 and punch cards.

JA

That brings back memories from the late 1960s, stacks of punch cards compiling a mixture of ALGOL, FORTRAN, and machine code for my PhD research.

FORTRAN is available to install from the Software Manager in Linux Mint – no need to use the command line, but I doubt that you’ll find a punch card reader for a PC!  It’s a bit more difficult to install in Windows.

Russell

Ah Algol – love it.  First language I ever learned, on an Elliott 803 in the evenings at a local tech.  You had to write your program, punch it in on a teletype to generate a tape, then take it into the computer room for it to be fed in at which point probably it would be rejected for syntax errors, so you had to find out where they were, and punch a new tape, etc etc…  Finally It would compile and generate another tape with the object code IIRC which could be fed in again to actually run your program!  The shortest legal algol program was a pair of semi-colons which would compile to yards and yards of tape!  They didn’t like that…

Talking of punched tape, I had a client who at one time worked at EMI in Hayes, office in a garret, writing code and outputting it on punched tape.  He could never persuade them to give him a wastebasket so he resorted to emptying the “chads” from the punched tape out of the window.  One day he was called in to a director’s office, and on the bosses’ desk was a vinyl LP with little paper chads embedded in it.  Apparently his discards were being sucked into a ventilation system and deposited in a hopper of vinyl pellets feeding the pressing line.  You might think they would have an air filter, or just a lid, not to mention wastebaskets, but this was Great British industry …

[Joseph Noci 1]

On Joseph Noci 1 Said:

Problem with SOD’s post is it about as long as it takes to google solutions to Linux installations, only to come out at the end with nothing to say but ‘huh?’

Linux is fine for neophytes if they only want to use the usual tools – wordprocessore, spreadsheet, etc. Go deeper and ply with , for example, Node-Red – yes there are Linus versions, and they don’t work with all, or most; Linux versions, and it takes days on google to get it working, even trolling all the Linux geek forums. Windows…load it, boot it run it.

Can’t toggle pins on windows? Nonsense easy as pie. Windows even runs CNC tools IN REAL TIME with no problems.  Write an executable app with neat MMI/GUI, using the likes of Visual Studio, free and loads on any Windows pc, and load it on your Win_pc – up and running in minutes. Do THAT on Linux while you wade through version incompatibilities , trying to make your executable on Linux an executable, digging through directories and sudo_nano files to kludge where things must be to be found to execute…

Andrew obviously has lived in that world for a decade ( or more..) and so its second nature – but anything short of a decade and folk do not succeed. The story always thrown back is that there is oodles of help and assistance on the web – nonsense again – when your attempted load of an install of something fails, and you have to dig through logs and terminal windows, and resort the the web asking questions – you get a dozen opinions, try to judge which is the most likely applicable  , and copy his instructions and command, enter in the command line, and before you know it, you have tied the machine, and yourself in such a knot, you get the memory stick out and re-install Linux and start again.

It is quite pathetic..

Try unistall an install that went part way and halted…Unless you are a fundi and know all the geek words and commands, its a road to hell. I use linux machines to run node red that gives me internet access to my pendulum interface, my Node-Red interface for my House Control, etc, via internet when I am far from home. That works, once I managed to find a distro that shared life happily with Node Red. I foolishly did a distro update one time , and then node-red no longer worked – out with the memory stick again.  The ONLY reason I use Linux for this is because the incompetent Windows update process cannot be prevented, and that would often hang the machine waiting for someone to type something – a bit difficult when away from home.

That said, I have replaced one of the linux machines again recently with a windows 10 machine, as it no longer does updates!

I am not that ‘green’ with linux – I have used many linux installations, for machine control, HAM radio tools and software, etc – I hate generating executable installs – it is just a pain. I used linux to create a full-on CNC controller of a lathe with a C axis and 8-tool auto tool changer ( I posted hoards about it here..) – using Linux_CNC – it had to be seriously tailored to work with a C axis and Full Kinematics – it worked, but only intensified my attitude towards linux.

The comment that you don’t find windows as servers; all or most are linux – yes, true, and great, but so what??? Its a server, not with a human sitting at the terminal  trying to write software, or debug software, or do cad work, etc.

The is NO cad package on linux that comes close to the stuff on windows, some of which are used on the forum and are free.

The are even fewer CAM packages ( read – zero-) in linux.

I have tried with linux for years, some success, but always with much frustration. I know SOd is a Rough and Ready fellow, but that’s not license to be rude and snarky – , I think its downright rude to tell people ( Fulman) that his socks have fallen down, and all else said – perhaps its your podium that is just to high….I feel Fulmen’s frustration and pain with linux like it was yesterday. He appears to manage with Windows just fine, with all its warts, so I doubt its a lack of intellect on his part that linux is such a pain.

Most users want to use the computer to do things, like cad for a project, or write a book, or do some ham radio stuff – that is the project – with linux, the project is LINUX – before you can do anything that is marginally not run of the mill, you have a whole project just to get linux loaded – if you hit the black screen with cursor on load, the fun already starts… It works fine while it works, but things go wrong so much easier than on windows, and the fix for bad results is not a simple un-install…

 

It is not a serious windows alternative for the majority, at all.

 

I appreciate your post. Much of what you’ve said is what I’ve heard over the years but it’s nice to hear it again from someone who has tried Linux. Agreed also about the rude and snarky comments. Totally unacceptable from a moderator. But then he’s not the only moderator on here that thinks his opinion is more valid than anyone else due to their position.

[VicParticipant @vic]

https://youtu.be/noaYSy-vKOo?si=Mx69vFMLx-XhDuZc

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

For what it’s worth SOD did not hurt my delicate feelings at all. I like to play rough and expect to be met with the same attitude  🙂

As for Linux as a desktop OS I think the numbers speak for themselves. 95% of the server marked and 4% of desktop in 35 years, that’s not an accident. And that’s from an OS that was originally intended for desktop.

I wish Windows was dying. I would be the first to drive a stake through it’s heart if there was a good, open alternative available. And maybe Linux will provide that in the future, but I’m not holding my breath.

[VicParticipant @vic]

As a slight aside. I was always a big fan of Microsoft Word many years ago, it really was a good package. These days I use Open Office but it’s not a patch on Word and hasn’t improved at all as far as I can see over the last ten years. I’ve used MS Word on both Mac and PC and would still use it if I could buy it as a standalone package.

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Open office had it’s last major update in 2014, since then a couple of minor security fixes. It has been replaced by Libre Office which was last updated in April this year.

Would perhaps be a good time to install Libre Office.

John

[Sonic EscapeParticipant @sonicescape38234]

I don’t understand this eternal anti-Windows hysteria. I have Windows 11 on my 9-year-old laptop, and it runs very fast. I also have a OneDrive subscription, and it works very well on both my laptop and Android phone. Their Phone Link app for transferring pictures from my phone to my laptop also works very well. This is how I post all my pictures here. At work, I’ve also always used Windows. The integration between Teams, Office, and SharePoint is unbeatable. There is no real alternative to it. Linux fans have been praising it for decades now, but somehow it is still below 4% in desktop usage.

 

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

Good point, Journeyman. And for those that need MS compatability there is Onlyoffice.

[Journeyman]

On Journeyman Said:

Open office had it’s last major update in 2014, since then a couple of minor security fixes. It has been replaced by Libre Office which was last updated in April this year.

Would perhaps be a good time to install Libre Office.

John

I had both on my machine but I much preferred Libre Office and it opens so many different file formats, including some from the old Apple software packages like Claris Works. As a result I deleted Open Office a few years ago.

Seems the French are upset with Windows as well.

[Fulmen]

On Fulmen Said:

.. And that’s from an OS that was originally intended for desktop..

 

Just for completeness – one other (pre Linux) ‘Unix’ version designed for desktops/ small systems was a thing called XENIX, produced by SCO in california for many years. It was essentially a version of Unix that cut down on memory / storage usage (as it was very limited at the time) but with similar basic functionality to its big brother that was running primarily on mainframe -sized machines.

Most people who supported it normally ended up in some sort of institute after a while as the phrase ‘ghastly bag of nails’ comes to mind. I for one, remember the  end of life party we had when it was summarily dumped by the company I worked for.

As an aside – I found Vic’s link to that video ‘Windows 11 crisis explained’ – most interesting & enlightening! I for one am seriously thinking of ditching it altogether – I’m comfortable with Linux (if you accept its limitations); we’ll see.

 

Mike

[Author]

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