Windows is dying

[VicParticipant @vic]

There are a number of articles on this topic I’ve seen recently.

https://youtu.be/V4SV9NDs6iM?si=eCK25-FX9vTmlBfN

[mike TParticipant @miket56243]

Well, if it’s on You Tube it must be real.

did you notice, Zack and your cat have similar facial expressions

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

I’ll agree that Windows is broken (same as it ever was), but as Thatcher used to say: “There Is No Alternative”. Linux? Don’t make me laugh. It isn’t, have never been and will never be a consumer OS. It’s a commando line OS with a GUI tacked on. It’s simple enough to install, and as long as you only want to write docs, check your email and browse the web it’s fine. But if you need something special or get into any problems you’re up sh*t creek without a paddle (or a canoe).

[Fulmen]

On Fulmen Said:

I’ll agree that Windows is broken (same as it ever was), but as Thatcher used to say: “There Is No Alternative”. Linux? Don’t make me laugh. It isn’t, have never been and will never be a consumer OS. It’s a commando line OS with a GUI tacked on. It’s simple enough to install, and as long as you want to write docs, check your email and browse the web, but if you need something special or get into any problems you’re up sh*t creek without a paddle (or a canoe).

Each to his own. I’ve been using Linux exclusively since Win 8 came out, and it does everything I want (definitely not limited to checking my email and web browsing, and it costs nothing). It used to be a bit of a struggle, but mostly less so now.

However – I did have a problem with it recently, when I needed to replace a hard drive and upgrade to the current version of the Linux distro I use (openSUSE by the way).

Things did not go well – my computer is like the axe that’s had three new heads and five new handles, and something (stemming from the age and a built-in flaw of the motherboard) prevented the installation from happening. I considered biting the bullet and forking out for a new motherboard and processor, but then thought ‘Why not try asking an AI?’.

ChatGPT walked me through fixing the multiple problems, and my computer is up and running (with some improvements like eliminating use of Brother’s obsolete and slightly cranky printer drivers). I certainly could not have accomplished this on my own, at least in any reasonable time-frame.

So, the point of this post is, with computer-related problems, an AI can sort out both paddle and canoe – you only have to ask it. I feel that some of the more mainstream Linux distros might do well to point this out.

n.b. I don’t hold with using AIs for trivia like writing your shopping list or telling you where to go on holiday – I think the environmental costs render that sort of thing unacceptable, at least with the current state of the technology. But in the case recounted above, I reckon I’d have burned more electricity using conventional web searches, and wasted days doing it.

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

• On 5 May 2026 at 20:52 Fulmen Said:
  I’ll agree that Windows is broken (same as it ever was), but as Thatcher used to say: “There Is No Alternative”. Linux? Don’t make me laugh. It isn’t, have never been and will never be a consumer OS. It’s a commando line OS with a GUI tacked on. It’s simple enough to install, and as long as you want to write docs, check your email and browse the web, but if you need something special or get into any problems you’re up sh*t creek without a paddle (or a canoe).

Not sure that I would agree with that! Whilst Linux was indeed clunky and nerdy many years ago it is now I think quite user friendly. If you load a modern distro, I use Linux Mint, it has most things that you would require and comes with a range of software not generally provided with Windows. It has for example a full and up to date browser in Firefox (you can load many others). It has a fully working office suite, Libre Office, that provides word processing, spreadsheet, database, presentation etc. I also have an image editing program, GIMP, that is as good as Photoshop.

Much of the internet (WWW) runs on Linux servers, Android and most TV operating systems are based on Linux. Even Apple has it’s roots in Unix which is from a similar starting point as Linux.

As to specialised programs it depends what you want, there are plenty of CAD programs that run happily on Linux. There are programming environments for every language known to man and a few others. Generally speaking Linux will do what you want without the Microsoft overhead and the endless and annoying updates that stop you working for hours at a time. Yes Linux updates regularly, if you want it to, but normally only takes a minute or so.

Windows is still clunky and deep down based on DOS from the 1980’s nothing is properly updated and nothing is removed apart from the useful widgets you used to get with the likes of Windows 7. Microsoft are only interested in making cash and have managed to close their system so that corporates are stuck paying extortionate fees to maintain a defunct system.

John

[mike T]

On mike T Said:

Well, if it’s on You Tube it must be real.

 

Yes, you’re right.

The Windows PC is dying, thanks to cloud-based services and AI

https://overclock3d.net/news/software/yes-windows-is-broken-microsoft-admits/

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/discussions/windows11/microsoft-finally-admits-almost-all-major-windows-11-core-features-are-broken/4475930

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/windows-11-is-dying/

 

 

 

 

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

It’s perhaps worth looking also at OnlyOffice as an alternative to MS Office.  Available for Windows, Linux and MacOS.  I’ve had a brief look at it and it seems highly compatible with MS doc formats though the devil may be in the detail. I have adapted to Win11 but get the feeling it’s increasingly flaky so starting to look at changing again.  I’ve finally started to get to grips with 3D modelling using OnShape which runs in a browser so not tied to an OS so that won’t be an issue.  Just need to sort out the CNC aspects.

[Journeyman]

On Journeyman Said:

 

Much of the internet (WWW) runs on Linux servers,

Sure, but I’m not running a web server. I still maintain that Linux at it’s core is a command line OS, and that will never be a viable replacement for Windows as a consumer OS. And don’t get me started on the distros, their main function is to ensure that whatever you choose, it’s the wrong one.

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Doesn’t look like a command line OS to me but each to their own…

Screenshot just now!

John

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

Just wait until you need to install a program that isn’t available trough a repository. Or you need to configure something. Sooner or later you’ll end up following some dudes “easy fix” trying to type in 13 lines of arcane incantations that mysteriously doesn’t work because it’s written for another distro.

And this is something that can’t be fixed. Because every distro depends on hundreds of other services and utilities that run exclusively from CLI.

[NealebParticipant @nealeb]

I remember talking to an ex-colleague who had just joined Oracle, the big database company. He said that they only needed to maintain a couple of different variants for IBM systems, and one for VAX/VMS. And about another 50 for different Linux/Unix versions.

I think he was joking…

[Fulmen]

On Fulmen Said:

Just wait until you need to install a program that isn’t available trough a repository. Or you need to configure something. Sooner or later you’ll end up following some dudes “easy fix” trying to type in 13 lines of arcane incantations that mysteriously doesn’t work because it’s written for another distro.

And this is something that can’t be fixed. Because every distro depends on hundreds of other services and utilities that run exclusively from CLI.

Agreed. Linux is fine if you’re prepared to fiddle about with it. For most ordinary people that just want to turn a computer on and use it, it’s the least user friendly OS on the market. Linux still also has the smallest amount of third party software that runs on it as well.

[VicParticipant @vic]

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

As far as I am concerned, anything is better than having to put up with Microsoft. That includes Linux!

Andrew.

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

I thought so as well. Then I tried Linux. Repeatedly. Now I would rather eat a box of light bulbs before messing with Linux ever again.

Did I mention I have two Raspberry Pi projects on the books? *sigh*

[JAParticipant @ja]

I use Windows and have used Unix. Although DOS is rubbish I am too old to move from Windows (which gets worse with every new version).

My understanding of this topic is that posters are just reinforcing what they want to hear.

Sorry, but bring back FORTRAN 5 and punch cards.

JA

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

bring back parchment and quill pens! I’ve used both windoze and Linux Mint. Can’t say I’ve had any issues with either. Occasionally you have to type command line stuff to download a Linux app, but it can often be done by cut and paste. There again I managed with things that were command line only, not difficult you just have to concentrate.

If I can find a cheap graphics card I’m thinking of resurrecting my previous computer with Linux to put in workshop

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Hello Fulmen,

I have far less problems with Linux than I do with Microsoft Windows. So it would appear that our conclusions are directly opposite to each other.

As we are both happy in our choices, then I suggest we continue with our own preferences. I have no axe to grind and really have no preconceived notions as to what is best. I simply prefer a route of minimum hassle.

Andrew.

[Fulmen]

On Fulmen Said:

… I would rather eat a box of light bulbs before messing with Linux ever again.

Did I mention I have two Raspberry Pi projects on the books? *sigh*

The forum is good at helping folk solve problems, but only if they explain what they are!  However, if Fulman only wants therapy after a bad Linux experience, I can provide both types:

1. There, there you poor boy. You’re absolutely right, you only failed because Linux is useless.  By all means tell everyone Linux is no good, but don’t provide any technical details that might reveal ego damaging levels of ignorance! Stick to pithy generalities like “I would rather eat a box of light bulbs” – that’s clever because it avoids accepting responsibility.  OR
2. Fulmen!  Pull your socks up.  Only bad workmen blame their tools.  Linux is a tool that you have to learn how to use.  Computing is skilled work too, so stop expecting results from slapdash misunderstandings.  No excuses, stop moaning and get stuck in…   Tell us what you where trying to achieve and what went wrong. Blaming Linux helps no-one, including yourself.

From what’s been said, I suspect Fulmen attempted a computer project without having all necessary skills.  Been there, done that.  But, keep it in proportion, millions of people have switched to Linux without blowing a fuse.  Most don’t get entangled in the CLI or try to fix problems by switching Distros.  I suggest Linux is innocent, and this is a wetware problem.

If Fulmen prefers therapy Option 1, let’s explore dumping RaspberryPi.  Don’t want him eating lightbulbs!  There are single-board Intel chipped Windows computers with IO pins like the raspberry, so why not.   Be warned that although these boxes run Windows, effort is needed and expect a steep learning curve.  Though setting up Windows will be familiar, programming IO pins isn’t standard: Windows is more difficult than Linux for this type of work.

Vic entitled this Topic “Windows is dying”.  Perhaps “Windows is in relative decline” is closer.  Reality check:

• Apart from special cases all versions before Windows7 are effectively dead.
• Windows 7 is still a fairly common legacy system, but often run inside a Virtual Machine as a way of avoiding hardware compatibility and security issues.  Sooner or later, owners are forced to change because old systems slowly become ever more difficult to maintain.   W7 is fairly common in the home too, only replaced when the owner’s ancient computer breaks. If it ain’t bust don’t fix it!  Though it can be done, replacing W7 with W7 is hard work, so, on the evil day, expect a big jump from W7 to W11!  Linux Mint might be less painful.
• Windows 10 is slowly dying because Microsoft have controversially shut it down. Unfortunately, Windows 11 is not an upgraded Windows 10. W11 contains many new features Microsoft can profit from, some good others bad.  The jury is out on W11:  up-to-date figures are hard to come by but domestic purchasers are resisting it, and many that switch to W11 dislike it.  It is pushing people on to Linux, though not on a grand scale. Though home users and small businesses can be ignored by Microsoft, Windows 11 is also annoying corporates with much more clout.  So the battle for the desktop isn’t Windows vs Linux/Apple it’s the fight is between Windows 10 and Windows 11!  My guess is Windows 12 will win after some of W11’s more obnoxious features are removed; then W10 will fade away like it’s predecessors.
• Other than on the desktop, Windows has proved unpopular in other important fields, though I’d say the defeats leave the OS walking wounded rather than fatally damaged:
  • All the world’s super-computers run Linux.  Prestige rather than a financial problem.
  • Linux dominates the market for embedded systems.  Pretty much everything network related from home routers to Internet Service Provision is Linux.  So are Media centres, ATM,  Point of Sale, automotive, aerospace, control & security systems,  game consoles, TV sets, you name it.   Windows never competed successfully in this space, and it’s worth billions.
  • Microsoft made a determined effort to get into the Smart Phone Market with a Windows variant.  The attempt failed, and I don’t believe anyone sells a Windows based Smart-phone today.  Extremely painful for Microsoft because the Smart Phone market is enormously valuable.  The Smart Phone battle was won by Apple and Android, both UNIX based. Android is a highly tuned Linux.
  • Though Windows is a popular server operating system, it plays second fiddle to UNIX/LINUX.  UNIX has always been server focussed by design, whereas Windows started as a desktop OS and extended from that.  Thus, when serious grunt is needed, Linux is more tuneable and reliable. And it has an excellent CLI!  Consequently most internet and cloud services are hosted by Linux, plus many of the hefty applications run privately by commerce and science etc. Microsoft have been fairly successful on servers, but not as much as they would like.
  • Artificial Intelligence is the new kid on the block. The enormous amount of compute power needed by AI backends is provided by Linux, not Windows.  Windows is good for AI development tools though.

The Windows operating system isn’t Microsoft’s main source of income by a long shot.  Just as well because laptops and PCs are being displaced by Smart Phones.  By a factor of 5x last year. Smart Phones and the Internet of Things are a major change in what customers want from Information Technology.  As a result PCs are in decline whatever the OS.  Income from Windows remains valuable, but Microsoft’s big profits come from the Cloud, AI, Business Productivity tools, and services.  Though Windows is fading, Microsoft are alive and kicking!

In the interest of balance, here are two good reasons for not switching to Linux:

• Being thoroughly familiar with Windows and having better things to do than learn a new operating system.  Linux isn’t Windows – it’s different!    Despite many similarities the two aren’t identical, especially if more than email, word processing and web browsing is needed.   Many users find “similar” is straightforward enough, but effort is required and not everyone has the time or inclination.
• An application not supported by Linux is essential.  Adobe and Microsoft products; pro-audio and video editing tools; games; business apps; USB dongle protected software; and other high-end software such as Engineering Applications.  For Model Engineers, the last are a likely showstopper. For example, Alibre, currently on offer, only runs on Windows, as do Fusion360, SolidEdge and SolidWorks.   Whilst Alibre can be persuaded to run on Linux or Apple, advanced skills are needed.  Personally, I wouldn’t bother – if any of these tools are needed, it’s much easier to cough up for a compatible Windows machine.

Dave

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Dave,

Alibre won’t run on Linux (many have tried – none quite got there).  It can run on Apple (via Parallels, so still Windows really).

This may change in due course – some background changes happening for version 29 remove nearly all dependencies on Windows only components.  Serious consideration will be given to a Mac version, and if that happens a Linux one might follow.  Don’t hold your breath though – this will take time, if it happens at all.

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

@Andrew: As I’m sure you’ve figured out I am trolling here. I have no real ax to grind and I’m perfectly OK with other having great experience with Linux. But at the same time I don’t think I’m completely wrong either. Note that I don’t think Linux is useless or even bad per se, just that it’s a poor substitute for Windows as a general purpose consumer desktop OS.

SOD isn’t wrong in concluding that the problem is me, and that I’ve started something without the required skills. But that is also my point, because that’s how I always roll. With Windows I have (almost) always managed to solve the problems coming my way. With Linux I can never get any traction no matter how many times I try. And I don’t think my experience is unique, if Linux truly was a good, user friendly OS I think it would have seen a wider adoption by now.

Pointing to all the other uses where *nix dominates kinda proves my point. It IS a good OS for many uses like servers, embedded systems and everywhere else where the common user isn’t expected to muck about under the hood.

 

Now if you’ll excuse me I have to see if I can get Octoprint installed on a Raspberry Zero 2. What could possibly go wrong?

[JA]

On JA Said:

 

Sorry, but bring back FORTRAN 5 and punch cards.

JA

That brings back memories from the late 1960s, stacks of punch cards compiling a mixture of ALGOL, FORTRAN, and machine code for my PhD research.

FORTRAN is available to install from the Software Manager in Linux Mint – no need to use the command line, but I doubt that you’ll find a punch card reader for a PC!  It’s a bit more difficult to install in Windows.

Russell

[vic neweyParticipant @vicnewey60017]

Microsoft keep insisting on producing security updates, the most recent ones causing considerable damage with some users being unable to get anything to load at all with total loss of their files. and then Microsoft having to produce a quick fix to undo the mess the previous update caused in the first place.

You can try to turn updates off as l have done but it keeps prompting me to download it. I know you can see on the web how to stop updates permanently but they do not work unless you have the pro version of win ll. I have not updated anything for 12 months or more other than virus updates and my high spek gaming pc works flawlessly

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

Problem with SOD’s post is it about as long as it takes to google solutions to Linux installations, only to come out at the end with nothing to say but ‘huh?’

Linux is fine for neophytes if they only want to use the usual tools – wordprocessore, spreadsheet, etc. Go deeper and ply with , for example, Node-Red – yes there are Linus versions, and they don’t work with all, or most; Linux versions, and it takes days on google to get it working, even trolling all the Linux geek forums. Windows…load it, boot it run it.

Can’t toggle pins on windows? Nonsense easy as pie. Windows even runs CNC tools IN REAL TIME with no problems.  Write an executable app with neat MMI/GUI, using the likes of Visual Studio, free and loads on any Windows pc, and load it on your Win_pc – up and running in minutes. Do THAT on Linux while you wade through version incompatibilities , trying to make your executable on Linux an executable, digging through directories and sudo_nano files to kludge where things must be to be found to execute…

Andrew obviously has lived in that world for a decade ( or more..) and so its second nature – but anything short of a decade and folk do not succeed. The story always thrown back is that there is oodles of help and assistance on the web – nonsense again – when your attempted load of an install of something fails, and you have to dig through logs and terminal windows, and resort the the web asking questions – you get a dozen opinions, try to judge which is the most likely applicable  , and copy his instructions and command, enter in the command line, and before you know it, you have tied the machine, and yourself in such a knot, you get the memory stick out and re-install Linux and start again.

It is quite pathetic..

Try unistall an install that went part way and halted…Unless you are a fundi and know all the geek words and commands, its a road to hell. I use linux machines to run node red that gives me internet access to my pendulum interface, my Node-Red interface for my House Control, etc, via internet when I am far from home. That works, once I managed to find a distro that shared life happily with Node Red. I foolishly did a distro update one time , and then node-red no longer worked – out with the memory stick again.  The ONLY reason I use Linux for this is because the incompetent Windows update process cannot be prevented, and that would often hang the machine waiting for someone to type something – a bit difficult when away from home.

That said, I have replaced one of the linux machines again recently with a windows 10 machine, as it no longer does updates!

I am not that ‘green’ with linux – I have used many linux installations, for machine control, HAM radio tools and software, etc – I hate generating executable installs – it is just a pain. I used linux to create a full-on CNC controller of a lathe with a C axis and 8-tool auto tool changer ( I posted hoards about it here..) – using Linux_CNC – it had to be seriously tailored to work with a C axis and Full Kinematics – it worked, but only intensified my attitude towards linux.

The comment that you don’t find windows as servers; all or most are linux – yes, true, and great, but so what??? Its a server, not with a human sitting at the terminal  trying to write software, or debug software, or do cad work, etc.

The is NO cad package on linux that comes close to the stuff on windows, some of which are used on the forum and are free.

The are even fewer CAM packages ( read – zero-) in linux.

I have tried with linux for years, some success, but always with much frustration. I know SOd is a Rough and Ready fellow, but that’s not license to be rude and snarky – , I think its downright rude to tell people ( Fulman) that his socks have fallen down, and all else said – perhaps its your podium that is just to high….I feel Fulmen’s frustration and pain with linux like it was yesterday. He appears to manage with Windows just fine, with all its warts, so I doubt its a lack of intellect on his part that linux is such a pain.

Most users want to use the computer to do things, like cad for a project, or write a book, or do some ham radio stuff – that is the project – with linux, the project is LINUX – before you can do anything that is marginally not run of the mill, you have a whole project just to get linux loaded – if you hit the black screen with cursor on load, the fun already starts… It works fine while it works, but things go wrong so much easier than on windows, and the fix for bad results is not a simple un-install…

 

It is not a serious windows alternative for the majority, at all.

 

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

Not sure how wise it is wise to skip security updates completely, but that’s your call.

The Raspberry project came together without any problems. Not really surprised as it’s bespoke software for quality hardware.

[Author]

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