Wind turbines get bigger and bigger

[Roger BParticipant @rogerb61624]

On a lighter note the German Police stopped this 'convoy'. I think he will find one of these new blades harder to transport

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Mark Rand on 04/04/2018 11:38:16:

Surely the carbon (dioxide) goes straight back in to the cement over the next 25 or so years as the concrete sets and continues gaining strength? 

Afraid not. Raw material is calcium carbonate mainly (around 2/3 of the mix). Cement hydrates to form calcium silicate interwoven crystal structures. Only the fee lime in the cement (not all of the lime in the raw materials is converted to silicates) etc during the ‘burning process’ within the kiln will slowly absorb CO2 and revert to calcium carbonate.

Typical free lime in a cement can vary between less than 1% to about 5%. Some of this free lime may react with other components in the concrete mix – such as fly ash or slag.

There is a difference between setting (a few hours usually) and curing (strength increase).

The early strength increase is derived from the tri-calcium silicate in the cement and later strength is derived from the di-calcium silicates. Both reactions take place (start) at the same time, but the rates of hydration are different.

Hope that changes your ‘oplnion’ on the subject of cement hydration (the clue is in the word ‘hydration&rsquo. 

Edited By not done it yet on 04/04/2018 13:41:23

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Ah yes! European traffic law states anything protruding more than 3m must have a red and white coned marker on the end. CONVOY EXCEPTIONAL !!

Edited By Speedy Builder5 on 04/04/2018 13:40:38

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Less than that in the UK! Only allowed 610mm overhang, I think. it is the usual striped triangle (or a bit of rag in many cases!).

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Dirigibles might be the solution to transporting long blades. Near me some road junctions were remodelled so the blades could get round the corners.

[larry PhelanParticipant @larryphelan54019]

I love some of the quaint expressions and turns of speech brought about by these posts !

Keep it up boys,that,s what keeps the ball rolling !.

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Taking long or awkward loads by road has always been fraught with problems. When in the RAF I spent 3 years on a salvage and transportation unit and we transported sometimes huge pieces of aircraft by road. Prior to larger than usual loads being despatched by road a survey was carried out to arrange for telephone and power cables to be removed on the appointed day to allow the load to pass and also to check road widths, bends and low bridges that might be a problem. One such journey we undertook was to transport a fully assembled gnat trainer aircraft by road from a flying station to a group headquarters in order that the aircraft could be the backdrop to a large cocktail party one evening. Yes these things really did happen! On the appointed day the aircraft was loaded into a cradle mounted on a large trailer which was pulled by a six wheeled scammell recovery tractor, a real beast of a machine, the cradle was then rotated so that one wingtip was nearly at ground level and the other way up off the ground, the resulting width of the load was 22 foot 6 inches wide. The surveyed route took us through country lanes and small villages in Oxfordshire and we had to travel at night in order to cause least disruption to the rural life. All went well till about half way through the journey we came up against a tree that clearly was not going to allow our load to pass, problem was it was right in the middle of this picturesque village and we were firmly wedged, as time passed with us sitting there with our scammell’s engine burbling away at 2.00 am it didn’t take long for a good proportion of the villagers to be roused to investigate what was going on. A decision was made that we would have to drastically prune the tree to allow our load to progress, so there we were sawing away large parts of this tree, which was in someone’s front garden, with a growing number of villagers, mainly dressed in pyjamas as it was a balmy summers night, watching this highly unusual night time activity. Eventually we managed to remove enough of the tree to allow us to pass and we moved off accompanied by a round of applause from the attendant villagers. I suspect that the senior person who surveyed the route received some adverse comments back at our base. This took place over 50 years ago and is just one of the memories I have from my time on the salvage unit, I went on to complete more than 22 years service.

Dave W

[Martin DowingParticipant @martindowing58466]

Posted by Jon Gibbs on 04/04/2018 09:06:43:

Posted by Martin Dowing on 04/04/2018 08:31:40:

Posted by Vic on 03/04/2018 17:22:00:

China and India are both building Thorium reactors.

**LINK**

From what I read some time back they are cheaper to build, safer to operate and produce less waste.

So why they are not around?

Martin

The short answer is that the world post-WWII wanted Plutonium for nuclear weapons which comes from U238 rather than Th232/U233.

It's not trivial and there needs to be REAL money spent on research of these alternative sources before you'll see any reactors.

I have heared Plutonium argument but it seems insufficient.

After all U233 made in thorium cycle is also as good for nuclear weapons as Pu239 would be. Comparable critical mass etc and on the top of it there is no issue with Pu240 which is a nuisance for weapon engineers.

My suspicion is that thorium tech has some hidden issues making it inferior to uranium approach.

Martin

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Deleted:- Opinions again…

Edited By Mark Rand on 04/04/2018 22:18:01

[Roger BParticipant @rogerb61624]

I think that one of the major barriers to developing thorium technology is that currently uranium is too cheap and abundant. It is possible to burn thorium in current generation reactors but how you breed it to fissile U233 has some challenges. Ideally you want to avoid external reprocessing so a lot of shuffling of fuel rods would be required.

The other options of the various next generation reactors have some other challenges. The travelling wave system is quite interesting but is currently being developed for the in situ breeding of U238 to Pu239 which is subsequently burnt rather than Th232 to U233.

The molten salt systems have significant materials challenges although Terrestrial Energy is hopping to apply for a construction permit for a prototype by the end of next year.

[colin wilkinsonParticipant @colinwilkinson75381]

When the Saudis have their solar panels generating perhaps they could modify all the redundant oil tankers, filling them with battery banks, charge them up and sail to wherever needs power? Fanciful ? Maybe, Who knows where battery technology will be in a few years time. Dogsbody

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Posted by colin wilkinson on 05/04/2018 09:05:35:

When the Saudis have their solar panels generating perhaps they could modify all the redundant oil tankers, filling them with battery banks, charge them up and sail to wherever needs power? Fanciful ? Maybe, Who knows where battery technology will be in a few years time. Dogsbody

Or use the solar electricity to produce a liquid energy

Hydrogen is the obvious one but difficult to handle

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

In Germany they use excess windpower to make hydrogen which they then pump into the gas grid. Makes a great deal of sense to me, gas space heating is very efficient so if it displaces electric space heating (which should be taxed out of existence) yoiu are on a winner. Making a liquid fuel would be even better, hydrogen is difficult stuff to store so I can run my car on it.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Forgot to include the link

**LINK**

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by duncan webster on 05/04/2018 11:17:24:

Forgot to include the link

**LINK**

The Germans are in the enviable position of renewables overloading the grid (resulting in negative spot prices for power) so this is a far better solution than curtailing generation and having to pay the turbine operators to switch off their turbines during a good period of wind generation (which is what occurs in the UK due to grid weaknesses).

Same for PV in the daytime, too. Why ‘waste’ wind and direct solar energy (PV), only to replace it with fossil fuel!

[Roger BParticipant @rogerb61624]

This facility was shut down in 2016, I haven't found any explanation, and a methane production facility is apparently being built on the site. Link (in German).

**LINK**

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by duncan webster on 05/04/2018 10:47:23:

In Germany they use excess windpower to make hydrogen which they then pump into the gas grid. Makes a great deal of sense to me, gas space heating is very efficient so if it displaces electric space heating (which should be taxed out of existence) yoiu are on a winner. Making a liquid fuel would be even better, hydrogen is difficult stuff to store so I can run my car on it.

Thanks for the Link Duncan. That’s very clever. I wonder what they do with the Oxygen, sell it to industry?

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

This describes how electricity, water and carbon dioxide can be converted to methane using the Sabatier process where hydrogen (from electrolising water) and carbon dioxide are passed over a hot catalyst to produce methane and water

**LINK**

Not quite closed loop, you need 4 molecules of hydrogen to produce one molecule of methane and 2 of water, so it consumes more water than it produces, but water and CO2 are cheap enough, and as Vic says you get oxygen as a bi product.

You can also have a fuel cell which converts metahne back into electricity. Might sound like tail chasing, but you can easily store methane, so it's all a matter of economics as to whether it works. You could also do the conversion on site and then transport the methane, which might be better than extending the national grid to outlandish places like the Highlands of Scotland (only joking, but pylons are a bit of an eyesore in mountainous regions).

[larry PhelanParticipant @larryphelan54019]

Duncan,that,s very rude ! No more Haggis for you,so there !!!

[steamdaveParticipant @steamdave]

Posted by colin wilkinson on 05/04/2018 09:05:35:

When the Saudis have their solar panels generating perhaps they could modify all the redundant oil tankers, filling them with battery banks, charge them up and sail to wherever needs power? Fanciful ? Maybe, Who knows where battery technology will be in a few years time. Dogsbody

In my15 years in Saudi Eastern Province, I never saw any form of solar or wind energy generation. There were two desalination plants, the newer one built by Hyundai and the by-product from both of them was electricity. With fresh water being scarce, the desalination plants were working full time so very little need for alternative forms of power generation.
The alternative – bore water – tasted vile because of all the minerals – almost brackish at times – and I don't think anyone used it for drinking, or even washing.

I've been retired 6 years now, so things may have changed in the meantime.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Abandoned wind turbines………………..in America! I am not really surprised at, as their energy policy is firmly oil based, and the reasons they are abandoned are unlikely to be because they were innefective, much more likely to be political. Siemens have opened a new turbine blade plant in Hull, just down the road from me, and they are busy building the largest offshore wind farm in the world just off the Humber estuary, which is being built right next to the previous largest wind farm. I don't think we will ever see them abandoned in the UK, as we have the best wind patterns in the whole of Europe, even better than Germany, who have gone for wind in a big way, and are rapidly abandoning nuclear. Yes, I fully appreciate that some of the Sellafield mess is caused by warhead manufacture, that does not alter the fact that warheads are made from nuclear waste, and also that we, the taxpayers are picking up the tab for decommisioning, which will not be the case with wind farms, where the vast majority of the installation is directly and easily recycled. You don't work in the nuclear industry by any chance?

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

My last post is FAO roger B, sorry missed the intervening ones!

[colin wilkinsonParticipant @colinwilkinson75381]

Steamdave, my comment ( tongue in cheek ) was in response to the eighth post by Stephen Millward who quotes a 200 bn investment by the Saudis. Colin

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Ummm! Humber estuary – largest wind farm, should keep the population of seagulls down.

[Roger BParticipant @rogerb61624]

Phil,

I believe the wind turbines were abandoned when the subsidies stopped as it was no longer economical to maintain them. When the gearboxes failed there was no sense in replacing them. You made more money building new turbines and starting with another 20 years of subsidy. I expect the same will happen in other places as the turbines start to age.

I don’t think the German model is a good example. The have decided on political not technical grounds to shut down their nuclear power plants, they have invested Billions in wind power, have one of the highest electricity costs in the world and have failed to reduce their CO2 emissions which was the reason behind the Energiewende.

Most of the nuclear decommissioning work in the UK is linked to military usage. The first two piles at Sellafield/Windscale were solely for the production of military grade plutonium. Britain’s fleet of Magnox reactors were designed with a low energy density and online refuelling again to allow the production of weapons grade plutonium. The low energy density means that the cores are much larger and hence there is more active material to deal with at decommissioning. The low burn up required for the plutonium manufacture results in significantly more material being reprocessed and hence more waste. 5% burn up will produce ten times more waste than 50% burn up. Most of the costs of decommissioning are directly related to the military requirement for plutonium during the cold war period and as ever with the military the taxpayer pays for them to make the mess and then pays to clear it up afterwards.

No I don’t work in the nuclear industry but I do like to find the facts not follow the dogma.

Best regards

Roger

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