Where to purchase a decent collet chuck?

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

Hi guys

I’ve just purchased a Warco VMC and I am in need of a good collet chuck to suit. The spindle taper is R8 and I already own a good set of Swiss made Rego-Fix ER40 collets. Therefore I think it would make perfect sense to purchase an R8 ER40 collet chuck.

Looking around though, there doesn’t seem to be many options other than the usual Chinese offerings? 🤔 The only other option I can find is a Taiwanese made Vertex one for approx £140 which would be fine, except it doesn’t appear to have any flats around the body for a spanner and my new VMC doesn’t have a spindle lock. 🤦🏼‍♂️ I don’t really want to have to start making alterations on brand new equipment if I can help it.

So my question is, does anyone have any recommendations?

[Steve Richardson 2Participant @steverichardson2]

these seem good https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Tool-Holding/Rotary-Tool-Holders-Accessories/Collet-Chucks-Accessories/Collet-Chucks?navid=2108596&refinements=Taper+Size%3AR8

[DC31kParticipant @dc31k]

Cutwel Pro chuck has no flats.

ArcEuroTrade chuck has no flats.

APT one does has flats and is very well priced:

https://www.shop-apt.co.uk/r8-er-collet-chucks/r8-er40-collet-chuck-for-er40-collets-72mm-gauge-length.html

Their prices are good – a 12000 rpm balanced chuck for under £20.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

APT – At £21 inc vat that has to be a misprint or a statement of it’s quality ? Noel.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

All the stuff I have had from APT works for me, majority of the carbide cutters I use on the CNC has come from them. Similar price ER collet chucks run true enough for most hobby use like this one with hobby price collets 0.003mm or 1/10th thou tir.

[DC31k]

On DC31k Said:

Cutwel Pro chuck has no flats.

ArcEuroTrade chuck has no flats.

APT one does has flats and is very well priced:

https://www.shop-apt.co.uk/r8-er-collet-chucks/r8-er40-collet-chuck-for-er40-collets-72mm-gauge-length.html

Their prices are good – a 12000 rpm balanced chuck for under £20.

7 in stock no more available.

That’s a last time buy dump price so move quickly.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

My recommendation based on my R8 VMB is to buy a set of R8 collets.  May work out a bit more expensive but they grip like fury, run very true, and have minimal stick-out underneath the spindle nose so give maximum daylight for higher vices/RTs etc.  I bought mine from MSC IIRC, I see that Arc advertise sets of 11 for £54 (but out of stock).  RDG have sets for £66 for imperial, probably metric too.  People seem to be obsessed with ER collets, I have a set ot ER16 for the CNC mill and ER40 for the lathe but really I much prefer collets that fit direct in the spindle on the milling machine..

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

There would still be the problem of locking the spindle to tighten the collets which Hollowpoint was trying to avoid and it would be a bigger probklem with nothing to grip unlike a chuck.

I’m the opposite and find that small cutters in the spindle have too many disadvantages – hard to see what you are doing, hard to clear swarf with brush or air, fogbuster can’g get close and clamps need to ne set further away from the cutter which is a problem if you want to cut near an edge. My MT and R8 collets hardly ever come out the draw, only if there is a head room issue will they see the light of day.

5C on the lathe, many a modern far eastern lathe you won’t get the tool close enough for direct MT collets.

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

Unless the collet chuck your buying matches or hopefully exceeds what should be very low run out numbers of those Rego-Fix collets, your then unable to use the accuracy of what those much more expensive collets cost. I bought a full set of Bison ER 40’s and their collet chuck for my R8 mill. All are very accurate and the chuck does have the wrench flats. I know Bison produces these R8 chucks with both the imperial 7/16ths x 20 thread and in metric whatever that might be. So be certain of what thread pitch you have on your mills drawbar first.

One caution I should add that seldom seems to be mentioned although you may already know this. ER collets have specific requirements as far as tool shank length there supposed to be used with. Unlike something like 5C collets, ER’s close and grip the tool shank at both ends. Rego-Fix recommends that at least 80% or more of the collet length is gripping any tool shank or accuracy and full collet grip on the tool shank will be very poor. It’s also possible to permanently deform an ER collet if it’s closed down tight on a tool shank that’s too short. I’ve found that for some of the very small cutting tools we might be sometimes using, some of them may not have nearly enough tool shank length to fit within that 80% + rule even though the collet itself will close down to that size for the tool shank. So it pays to still double check the tools listed dimensions and shank lengths when buying those smaller tools. Thankfully most small end mill sizes can usually be obtained with larger shank diameters than the tools flute diameter, and with longer shank lengths. But I think it’s still something worth being aware of.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

From a lifetime using turret mills I too would use R8 collets and most if not all mills can have a spindle lock added with some thought. My Myford VME has balancing holes on the underside of the large spindle pulley, I made up a simple block and plunger arrangement to utilise these holes for locking the spindle.

Tony

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

Arc Eurotrade have an R8 / RE40 collet chuck here

7/16 UNK drawbar thread & the pictured item appears to have flats on the body + includes a C spanner for the nut. £52.38 inc Vat plus carriage.

Only had decent stuff from Arc.

I have only use direct mounting R8 collets on Bridgeports / Bridgeport clones. Minimises the amount of projection from the spindle bearings by eliminating the extra length of a collet chuck.

Nigel B

[Norman BillinghamParticipant @normanbillingham91454]

I have a Warco VMC with an R8 ER32 chuck which I bought from them with the mill. The solution to the lack of a spindle lock was to buy a ball bearing collet closing nut (from Arc Euro). With that, just holding the belt pulley allows me to get the collet as tight as I’ve ever needed it to be.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I’m 99% certain that is a trick of the light as the ARC ones don’t have flats. Of all the ones I have seen with flats the flat only takes up part of the doby length.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Yes, to me Arc’s image definitely shows a collet chuck without flats.

Interestingly, in my copy of Arc’s printed catalogue at least one image of R8 collet chucks shows very definite flats. I wonder why flats ceased being a feature of these chucks. Is the assumption that most users will have some means of locking the spindle?

The APT R8 collet chucks I’ve got in three different sizes have all got flats. Runout measured up the taper of my ER25 and ER32 chucks is about 0.01mm: runout up the taper of their ER40 chuck is an impressive 0.002mm.

The only disappointing things I’ve had from APT were some ER20 “super precision” collets, two out of three of which had more runout than their counterparts in a very cheap set I bought off Amazon for woodturning.

[Pete]

On Pete Said:

Rego-Fix recommends that at least 80% or more of the collet length is gripping any tool shank

You have to be careful with statements like that. For the smaller collets in any ER series, the back end of the collet is relieved, so the 100% gripping length is not the same as the overall collet length.

It is probably more correct to say that minimum 80% of the factory gripping length should be used on the tool shank.

Pictures and dimensions of ER collets are available in Reg o’ Fix’s catalogue (I think the company was started by a Swiss Irishman).

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

Your correct and my choice of wording was poor. But I also didn’t say some or maybe most of the smaller bored ER collets weren’t relieved at the back.Since it’s impossible to have used every collet from every manufacturer, who can say for sure if there all relieved or not. My smaller bored ER 40’s and even the smaller Schaublin ESX 25’s I have are, but that 80% rule still applies to the bore length that’s left. It would be difficult to use a percentage number for what’s not even there. But I can see where the wording I used might have caused someone to be mislead, so thanks for adding the correction.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Though the VMB doesn’t have a spindle lock or flats I’ve only once had a cutter pull out of an R8 collet.  I apply a spanner to the drawbar and hold the plain part of the quill.  For extra tightness use a “boa constrictor” to the quill.

[Pete]

On Pete Said:

Since it’s impossible to have used every collet from every manufacturer, who can say for sure if there all relieved or not.

I was kind of under the impression that the back relief was not a manufacturer choice, but part of the ER (possibly de facto) standard.

To me, the relief of an ER collet is as foundational as the 20 tpi thread on a threaded milling cutter.

It would be interesting to see a collet from anybody that does not follow the drawings in the Rego Fix literature.

I think the relief is deliberately engineered so the collapse range/ability of the collet remains the same between the biggest and smallest in the series (i.e. it is necessary rather than optional).

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

Thanks for the input guys. A lot to digest.

I might give the APT one a go, for £17 + shipping even if it is crap its no big deal and I can always upgrade in the future.

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

Just a little update and question for anyone interested.

I purchased the R8 ER40 collet chuck suggested by DC31K from APT.

It arrived well packed the very next day. The chuck looks nicely made, is well finished and it does have the flats which is great. In testing the runout appears to be about 0.01mm, would you consider that ok?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

What does your spindle taper measure before you put the chuck into it, if there is runout there then you will see it in the chuck.

Is that runout measured in the ER40 taper?

Also I could not see that it was one of the 12000rpm balanced ones as DC32K said it was.

[JasonB]

 

On JasonB Said:

What does your spindle taper measure before you put the chuck into it, if there is runout there then you will see it in the chuck.

Is that runout measured in the ER40 taper?

Also I could not see that it was one of the 12000rpm balanced ones as DC32K said it was.

I can’t seem to find my best (most accurate) dial gauges but measuring the mill spindle with a couple of 0.01 gauges there is no detectable runout.

Using the same gauges (all 0.01) in the taper of the collet chuck they all show approx 0.01 runout. I also tested with a large 3/4″ carbide cutter held in a Rego-Fix collet at about 1″ inch from the chuck. Again about 0.01mm runout.

One small thing I did notice with the collet chuck was that the parallel section of the R8 shank is a bit of a loose fit in comparison to some of the other tools I have.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

On

One small thing I did notice with the collet chuck was that the parallel section of the R8 shank is a bit of a loose fit in comparison to some of the other tools I have.

They do vary, centering is done by the taper.

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

Also I could not see that it was one of the 12000rpm balanced ones as DC32K said it was.

Please do not put words in my mouth. Kindly read what I wrote above. The sub-£20 12k balanced ones are listed in “related products” at the bottom the page that shows the R8 one.

This is an example of this moment:

https://www.shop-apt.co.uk/bt40-er-collet-chucks-8000-rpm/bt40-collet-chuck-for-er40-collets-70mm-gauge-length-balance-12000-rpm-g63.html

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

OK, Maybe “Comment may have implied” would have been better.

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